What breaks if I apply the following template to everyone in the universe?

[gruundehn]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Hello! So basically I have a universe where widespread genetic engineering has been performed on humans, dwarves, elves and so on to improve everyone's health. So not only the PC, but all the NPC, friend or foe, get the following template, for free:

IQ +2
ST+2
HT+2
DX+2
Hard to Kill 2
FP+2 (physical activity only (That is, cannot be used for missed sleep, food, water, or for casting spells))
Will never grow overweight regardless of diet (perk)

Does something break if I do that? Thanks!

The Attribute levels, like a lot of GURPS, is both free-floating and strictly fixed. To make myself a bit clearer, while a Strength of 10 has certain fixed results regardless of what era the character is in, it also is average for whatever era the character is in. In other words, because of the physical aspects of living in the past, my Strength of 10 today would be closer to an 8 or a 9 in the 1300s, say.

So, if this genetic engineering is as common as you say, the average is still a 10. Yes, I know that a 10 has certain specific damage levels and certain specific weight limits, but this is the nature of GURPS. A level of 10 is average regardless of the era and in spite of the fixed nature of the side effects of the Attribute. Otherwise, TL 3 characters would have to have a +1 or +2 in Strength and Health.

I would advise not messing with such a universal template.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by gruundehn

The Attribute levels, like a lot of GURPS, is both free-floating and strictly fixed. To make myself a bit clearer, while a Strength of 10 has certain fixed results regardless of what era the character is in, it also is average for whatever era the character is in. In other words, because of the physical aspects of living in the past, my Strength of 10 today would be closer to an 8 or a 9 in the 1300s, say.
...

How do you figure that? Did one pound weigh a different amount in the 1300s than it does today?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by gruundehn

The Attribute levels, like a lot of GURPS, is both free-floating and strictly fixed. To make myself a bit clearer, while a Strength of 10 has certain fixed results regardless of what era the character is in, it also is average for whatever era the character is in. In other words, because of the physical aspects of living in the past, my Strength of 10 today would be closer to an 8 or a 9 in the 1300s, say.

So, if this genetic engineering is as common as you say, the average is still a 10. Yes, I know that a 10 has certain specific damage levels and certain specific weight limits, but this is the nature of GURPS. A level of 10 is average regardless of the era and in spite of the fixed nature of the side effects of the Attribute. Otherwise, TL 3 characters would have to have a +1 or +2 in Strength and Health.

I would advise not messing with such a universal template.

This is comprehensively incorrect.

[gruundehn]

Originally Posted by robkelk

How do you figure that? Did one pound weigh a different amount in the 1300s than it does today?

You misunderstood what I said. The level of 10 is ALWAYS average regardless of time (TL) but the game mechanics stay the same. Thus my comment about inconsistency. A TL 0 human of average strength will be stronger than a TL 8 human of average strength but the game mechanics will be the same.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by gruundehn

You misunderstood what I said. The level of 10 is ALWAYS average regardless of time (TL) but the game mechanics stay the same. Thus my comment about inconsistency. A TL 0 human of average strength will be stronger than a TL 8 human of average strength but the game mechanics will be the same.

According to my reading of the rules, a TL 0 human of average strength is exactly as strong as a TL 8 human of average strength. The Basic Lift rules are quite clear on that.

Likewise, there's no TL difference for DX (if you can consistently hit a target of a given size from a given distance without training, then you have a given DX no matter whether you're throwing a TL 0 rock or a TL 12 multiscanner) or HT (if you can stay awake for x hours in a row without drugs, then you have y FP, which does not vary by TL) or IQ (perception doesn't vary by TL, either).

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by gruundehn

In other words, because of the physical aspects of living in the past, my Strength of 10 today would be closer to an 8 or a 9 in the 1300s, say.

I think it highly unlikely that the average person 700 years ago was 25% to 50% stronger than the average person today.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by mr beer

I think it highly unlikely that the average person 700 years ago was 25% to 50% stronger than the average person today.

The average person 700 years ago was more likely to be a manual laborer than the average person today, but on the other hand, also more likely to be malnourished or otherwise in poor health. In any case, that's somewhat moot, since however stats are written, presumably adding a +2 template will result in any given task being easier by 2.

[Fred Brackin]

There are some small effects and consequences not mentioned yet.

The Major Wound Threshold for the average human goes up from 6 to 7. With Thrust damage going up by 1 and Swing by 2 you're actually going to see more Major Wounds in melee combat but less Knockdown and stunning or Crippling.

Everybody is also +2 to hit and +1 to Parry and Dodge all other things being equal. +1 to Base Speed and Move too.

Handguns don't improve automatically with the +2 ST the way Melee weapons do but you still need more damage. In our world the minimum for effective weapons is generally considered to be compact .38 Specials and .38 ACPs and Gurps agrees by giving these weapons 2D-1 P making Major Wounds the likeliest result.

In the new world you need a full 2d and those Knockdown and Stunning checks go from 50% failures to only 25%. Then when you step up to .45 ACP you go from a Knockdown+Stunning check and a Consciousness roll with a cumulative 75% (2 50%s sequentially) to only one 25% chance of somebody (even temporarily) falling down and not shooting at you any more.

It's hard to say what the development of melee combat looks like once you factor in the ability to wear heavier armor but the development of guns seems likely to be retarded, especially for concealable handguns.

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The average person 700 years ago was more likely to be a manual laborer than the average person today, but on the other hand, also more likely to be malnourished or otherwise in poor health. In any case, that's somewhat moot, since however stats are written, presumably adding a +2 template will result in any given task being easier by 2.

Agree, it's moot from a rules perspective.

From a real world perspective, it's difficult to pin down, I think it's fair to say that people had to do more manual labour or were otherwise more physically active. As you say, they were also more likely to have other issues. Additionally, they were probably physically smaller, though to what degree would vary a great deal by time and place.

Then there's how much these factors impact the GURPS ST stat, for example Lift ST+1 or Fit might be more common than ST+1.

Whatever the differences in physical strength (as opposed to GURPS ST) between an AD 1300 real world average person and the AD 2000 equivalent, they would be much smaller than the difference between men and women. Which is a whole other can of worms.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The average person 700 years ago was more likely to be a manual laborer than the average person today, but on the other hand, also more likely to be malnourished or otherwise in poor health.

I see no contradiction between the idea that a manual laborer in his late 20s centuries ago might be noticeably stronger than a modern, because of the hard work, but also have poorer HT. He might could endure hardship more readily because he's hardened to it, but also be more likely to contract the next round of plague than a modern would be.

Whether all that would be enough to qualify showing up in the stats, I'm not sure.