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Old 12-07-2018, 03:12 AM   #1
coronatiger
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Default How do you First Aid?

The rules for applying first aid to injuries are pretty simple (at least in the Basic Set):

1. Immediate first aid: Roll First Aid to stop bleeding* and restore 1 HP.
2. Extended first aid: Roll First Aid to treat shock** and restore a random amount of HP, depending on TL and whether the immediate first aid restored any HP.

* If you are using bleeding optional rule
** Or whatever you want to call it

But how does one deal with multiple injuries? Let's consider two examples:

1. A goblin slashed Mattea's leg, causing her to lose 5 HP. After the battle, Olivia applies first aid (immediate and extended) and restores a total of 2 HP. A few hours later, another goblin ambushes the party, punching Mattea in the torso, dealing 1 point of damage. Again, her trusty companion gets out the bandages, again rolling to restore 2 HP. (If it's relevant, assume 0+2 for immediate+extended.)

2. A goblin slashed Mattea's leg, causing her to lose 5 HP. He then punches her in the torso, dealing 1 point of damage. Olivia fetches her bandages, picks up the dice, and looks questioningly at the GM.

How would you deal with these situations? Here are a couple of questions to set your brain gears in motion:
* In example 1, would you limit the second application of first aid to 1 HP?
* In example 2, would you allow Olivia to do first aid twice (both the leg and the torso)?
* Would anything be different if both attacks hit the same body part?
* Any other comment?

Another question, not entirely related: If a character is bleeding, and someone fails their First Aid roll to stop the bleeding, would you allow a second attempt? (And what if it was a crit fail?)
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:38 AM   #2
cdru
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: How do you First Aid?

I don't know much about treating shock, but bandaging can be performed repeatedly until the bleeding stops, even if a critical failure is rolled
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:58 AM   #3
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: How do you First Aid?

I allow individual wounds to be treated individually for bleeding* in terms of trying to stop it, but I only allow 1hp to be returned for that. I would allow one 1 overall shock first aid roll as well.



*however I also run bleeding or each wound simultaneously as well!
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:05 AM   #4
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: How do you First Aid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coronatiger View Post
....
Another question, not entirely related: If a character is bleeding, and someone fails their First Aid roll to stop the bleeding, would you allow a second attempt? (And what if it was a crit fail?)
Definitely allow repeated attempt to stop bleeding (but I also use the MA bleeding rules which means some sources of bleeding can't be stopped with First aid anyway)

Not sure I'd bother with critical failures on first aid to stop bleeding, as ongoing bleeding rolls already have extra negative affect for critical failures.

If you wanted you could say a critical failure on a first aid roll to stop bleeding means your next attempt to at to stop the bleeding automatically fails.

I might well allow a critical success on a first aid bleeding roll to help with bleeding that would normally require a surgery roll though!
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:07 AM   #5
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: How do you First Aid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coronatiger View Post
How would you deal with these situations? Here are a couple of questions to set your brain gears in motion:
* In example 1, would you limit the second application of first aid to 1 HP?
Yes. You can't restore more HP with First Aid than the injury you are treating. You may not repeatedly inflict 1 HP wounds on somebody and treat them repeatedly with First Aid as a method of healing.

Quote:
* In example 2, would you allow Olivia to do first aid twice (both the leg and the torso)?
No. For the most part GURPS doesn't track individual wounds. This is partly for simplicity, and partly because the entire concept of additive wounds that's at the basis of hit points is already so unrealistically abstracted that it doesn't really make sense.

Quote:
Another question, not entirely related: If a character is bleeding, and someone fails their First Aid roll to stop the bleeding, would you allow a second attempt? (And what if it was a crit fail?)
Sure. It takes another minute per try, so you bleed for the first minute.

A critical failure doesn't generally prevent trying again, it wastes your time and has some immediate negative effect (in this case causes 2 HP damage). Sometimes this makes a second attempt pointless (e.g. it's now too late or the immediate negative effect destroyed whatever you were working on) but if it doesn't you can generally try again with a repeat attempt, sometimes at a penalty, see B248 (First Aid falls in that causes damage category, so it doesn't take a penalty for retrying except in cases where there is a specified one like for Stabilizing a Major Wound)
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:12 AM   #6
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: How do you First Aid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
..

Sure. It takes another minute per try, so you bleed for the first minute.

A critical failure doesn't generally prevent trying again, it wastes your time and has some immediate negative effect (in this case causes 2 HP damage). Sometimes this makes a second attempt pointless (e.g. it's now too late or the immediate negative effect destroyed whatever you were working on) but if it doesn't you can generally try again with a repeat attempt, sometimes at a penalty, see B248 (First Aid falls in that causes damage category, so it doesn't take a penalty for retrying except in cases where there is a specified one like for Stabilizing a Major Wound)

The losing 2hp on a critical failure is only described in the treating shock First aid use, the Bandaging use of first aid roll doesn't mention any extra penalty for a critical failure. Does the -2 HP apply for both?
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:31 AM   #7
Maz
 
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
Default Re: How do you First Aid?

This comes down to how you treat bleeding rules.


In our current game we track each and every wound separately. And use the harsh penalties for bleeding.

So a slash to the leg for 5 hp loss; is a HT-1 check every minute.
If you (in the same battle) also takes a blow to the torso for 1 hp loss; it's another HT+0 check every minute.

After the battle those performing First Aid has to Stop Bleeding for each individual wound.
Each attempt taking the same penalty as the HT check.
Each attempt taking 1 minute.
You keep rolling bleeding checks until a wound is completely bandaged. So even if a person receives first aid immediately, it still takes one minute and so they still have to make at least one bleeding roll themselves.

In our games you never receive HP on Stop Bleeding.

In our game. Treat shock is not "per wound". But "per encounter". And in your example with multiple encounters after each other. A new "Treat shock" could never heal more HP than the HP lost for that specific encounter.



...and then we also have magical healing, which just cheats and can always heal HP... but doesn't automatically stop bleeding, but gives a bonus to your natural HT checks to stop bleeding.
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