[MH] Why no Heavy Weapons?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by HANS

The BAR is an awesome weapon at TL6. At TL7 or TL8, it's just stupid. It has serious length, weight, and ergonomic issues compared to any of the various 7.62x51mm NATO automatic rifles (FAL, G3, Galil, etc), especially the layout of the stock and the lack of a pistol grip. Most of these are too small to matter in GURPS, but as a GM I'd certainly enforce them.

Cheers

HANS

How would your enforcement have any impact if the issues don't matter in GURPS? "Your gun works better, but I keep telling you how uncomfortable it is to handle" is really not going to make an impression.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

How would your enforcement have any impact if the issues don't matter in GURPS? "Your gun works better, but I keep telling you how uncomfortable it is to handle" is really not going to make an impression.

Docking the user a couple of extra FP for the heavy, uncomfortable weapon would be a way of doing that. I suppose that players of the "If it ain't written, it ain't so!" mindset would object, but I invited those guys out of my social circle back in my teen years, sometime in the 1980s.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

How would your enforcement have any impact if the issues don't matter in GURPS? "Your gun works better, but I keep telling you how uncomfortable it is to handle" is really not going to make an impression.

Indeed.

Speaking for myself, I'd really like HANS to publish something containing a long list of minor features, bugs and other issues of specific weapons, along with optional rules on how to reflect them in game play. Not everyone has the required knowledge about guns to know what issues he should be considering and even those who do often lack an elegant way to present it in mechanical terms.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Docking the user a couple of extra FP for the heavy, uncomfortable weapon would be a way of doing that. I suppose that players of the "If it ain't written, it ain't so!" mindset would object, but I invited those guys out of my social circle back in my teen years, sometime in the 1980s.

Granted, but a treatise on when to charge extra FP, when to apply a minor penalty to certain tasks and, most importantly, which real world weapons ought to receive such special consideration, is something that would allow GMs who are not both extremely knowledgable about guns and extremely proficient at off-the-cuff rules-making, to overcome these flaws and present all the minor differences between gun models in a true technothriller fashion.

Not something that would see use in play for those who really only want a short list of guns (small pistols, big pistol, smg, rifle, automatic rifle, etc.), but the success of HANS' catalogue books of guns seems to indicate that a significant sub-group of gun-nut roleplayers exist out there.

[Sam Cade]

Originally Posted by HANS

The BAR is an awesome weapon at TL6. At TL7 or TL8, it's just stupid. It has serious length, weight, and ergonomic issues compared to any of the various 7.62x51mm NATO automatic rifles (FAL, G3, Galil, etc), especially the layout of the stock and the lack of a pistol grip.

Latter production BARs had a pistol grip.

Belgian Type D:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/r...owning-792.jpg

and the manual to same

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-c...D%20manual.pdf

[safisher]

Originally Posted by HANS

You can't add a folding stock to most AR-15 systems, including this one, because the stock contains the buffer tube. Recently a design has become available that works on the AR-15, but means that you can't fire AT ALL with the stock folded, which is a less than perfect solution.

I know that. Some AR systems use pistons and have folding stocks; in that case, re-caliber t0 50 Beowulf. But the Law Tactical Folding Stock Adapter works fine for shoving a 50 Beowulf assault rifle in your trenchcoat. It takes a ready maneuver or FD to get it flicked open, but it works fine for concealment. I understand you can fire one shot with it open and then it ruins the gun until you replace the buffer tube, etc.

[HANS]

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

Latter production BARs had a pistol grip.

Yes. In fact, the best configuration of this gun for play is the R80 Monitor (High-Tech: Pulp Guns 2, p. 11), which has a shortened barrel, pistol grip, and compensator. It's still very heavy, and very rare, to boot.

You should ALWAYS make the most of the Bulk penalty. The rifle is huge. As to the more subtle ergonomic issues, there are rules that can be applied -- for example, you can DISALLOW the Weapon Bond perk, mimicking the fact that most people just can't get comfortable with the thing. You can assign a Fast-Draw penalty, since the BAR has an awkward magazine release (inside the trigger guard).

Cheers

HANS

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Apparently, one of the differences between the TL6 weapon and the TL8 weapons is that TL8 weapons can be designed to be far more modular, thus easy to gunsmith into exotic varieties, and to take accessories more easily. Which is a real advantage for heroic monster hunters.

I don't have any real gun knowledge (I'd love to learn about). And I'm used with fantasy games, so I'm not good at gurpsmithing guns (although I have the right books and I'm reading then). At a first glance, dmg 7d, Rof 9 and Rcl 2 seemed the perfect combination for a rifle. I'm totally limited to rely on these rules, looking for what is allowed or forbidden.

My only goal is to build the most powerful rifle with Rcl 2 at TL 8. I'd appreciate the help of my forum's fellows.

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

Latter production BARs had a pistol grip.

Belgian Type D:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/r...owning-792.jpg

and the manual to same

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-c...D%20manual.pdf

But damage and recoil would be the same of Browning M1918 BAR, 30-06 (HT 120)?

Originally Posted by HANS

You should ALWAYS make the most of the Bulk penalty. The rifle is huge. As to the more subtle ergonomic issues, there are rules that can be applied -- for example, you can DISALLOW the Weapon Bond perk, mimicking the fact that most people just can't get comfortable with the thing. You can assign a Fast-Draw penalty, since the BAR has an awkward magazine release (inside the trigger guard).

In a cinematic game like Monster Hunter, the Commando's Gunslinger advantage would help with those limitations?

[Kromm]

I would welcome a list of optional, non-weapon-table traits such as "Adds +1 to FP costs for combat," "Off-limits for Weapon Bond," "Extra -1 to Bulk in close combat only/for Holdout only/for Move and Attack only," or even "Gives -5 to unfamiliar shooters, and is always at -1 without an Exotic Weapon Training perk." We could also have beneficial ones like "Bulk is -1 less severe in close combat only/for Holdout only/for Move and Attack only" or "Configurability gives +2 for Weapon Bond." We already have footnotes on reliability in High-Tech, which are a very similar idea. Then these traits could then be assigned to particular models of guns. That would make a great Pyramid article (and illustrate how "gadget bugs" exist even in the real world).

[HANS]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I would welcome a list of optional, non-weapon-table traits . . . That would make a great Pyramid article (and illustrate how "gadget bugs" exist even in the real world).

Challenge accepted ;)

Cheers

HANS