How popular should they be? Reaction bonuses.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

In a town of 40000, there's probably 400-800 people of status 2+.

Nah, more like 4,000+. It's a city where things are happening and enterprising merchants and successful mercenary warlords like to settle. Added to that, it has a truly enormous population of knights, to wit, about a thousand of them, all told.

The countryside around it mostly has Status -1 farmers, but the city is unusual in being very top heavy with important and rich people.

The actual nobles of the city, though, number only about a 200 or so, with only 32 of those being the current holder of the title and not just related to one.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Amongst that elite group, the PCs don't know everyone but have mild positive Reputations - everyone has heard of them. Most of the nobles and knights that have met them like them very much, but a few don't.

A recent tally showed that during gameplay, the PCs had become acquintanced with members of 11 of the 32 houses. During revels, of course, they've seen most of them and maybe been introduced, but nothing substantive.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Their reaction modifiers go down as they move up in status, so when they visit the Count, his butler is going to be impressed and the maids and footmen very impressed. The Count is going to be less impressed. I'd expect the guards to let them in to see the butler immediately, who would seat them in comfort and take word of them to the Count. The maids will fawn over them while they wait. But if the Count only knows of them by reputation, he's not going to be in any huge hurry to meet them: his reaction modifier is only +1, after all. As soon as the Count meets them in person, he'll react more favorably.

I believe you're right.

OTOH, rather than having players buy social traits, I award Reputation based on what feels believable to me, and how many people of the city do they need to meet before they get a Reputation for always charming those they spend time with? Solstice doesn't have a reputation for glorious deeds, no, but should people have heard of him based on his massive Reaction Modifier alone?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by martinl

How about using the speed-range table?

And now the phrase 'these guys comparing their Charisma sizes' starts to get too real. ;)

(Or girls, for that matter.)

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Icelander

OTOH, rather than having players buy social traits, I award Reputation based on what feels believable to me, and how many people of the city do they need to meet before they get a Reputation for always charming those they spend time with? Solstice doesn't have a reputation for glorious deeds, no, but should people have heard of him based on his massive Reaction Modifier alone?

Possibly not. You're talking about a large university's worth of people, with a small university's worth of notables. That's a pretty large crowd to stand out in.

Conceptually, I'd sort it out into 3 tiers: the elite trendsetters, the people of note, and the bulk populace. The trendsetters are the top 30 families and other opinion makers. The people of note are the 4000+ people with Status 2+. Everyone else is the rest of the population. Track the Reputation with each group separately, and let it spill over at -1 per level down and -2 per leve up: if they have a +3 reaction with 1/3 of the trendsetters, they also have a +2 reaction with 1/3 of the people of note and a +1 with 1/3 the populace.

As far as gaining that reputation goes, they need to impress people they meet with a Good reaction for a +1 rep, Very Good for a +2, and Excellent for a +3. Assume everyone they meet tells a friend, so double the number of people they interact to determine reputation frequency.

Using that scheme, they've met 1/3 of the trendsetters and probably gotten (on average) a Very Good reaction with them: that gives them a +2 reputation with 1/2 the trendsetters, and a +1 with 1/2 the people of rank. Of course, Sir Micheal already has a +2 rep with 1/4 of the people of rank... if he's met all the knights personally, that's enough to give him a +2 or maybe +3 reputation with half the people of rank. And so on.

I'd probably want to sit down and work out all the interactions, but this system gives you a start on measuring their popularity.

[vicky_molokh]

Another note about using diminishing returns with Reaction Bonuses:

It will make the RB-Traits' worth (as opposed to cost) non-linear. Not a good thing, especially considering that 4e made a big effort to make things linear.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Another note about using diminishing returns with Reaction Bonuses:

It will make the RB-Traits' worth (as opposed to cost) non-linear. Not a good thing, especially considering that 4e made a big effort to make things linear.

This is true, although making it speed/range table in the difference between the rxn mods would obfuscate that a little. Just like "Skinnysword-25 gives you an advantage vs. someone with Skinysword-20, rxn +10 would give you an advantage vs. rxn +7.

In any case, I think a lot of traction can be gained just from making the extreme results require actual crits rather than good mods.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Icelander

.

OTOH, rather than having players buy social traits, I award Reputation based on what feels believable to me, and how many people of the city do they need to meet before they get a Reputation for always charming those they spend time with? Solstice doesn't have a reputation for glorious deeds, no, but should people have heard of him based on his massive Reaction Modifier alone?

No. On the other hand once he starts doing stuff with his massive Reaction Modifier, people will hear about that. Although not necessarily in a good way, considering.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No. On the other hand once he starts doing stuff with his massive Reaction Modifier, people will hear about that. Although not necessarily in a good way, considering.

We've been gaming for years in this campaign.

He has done things with his massive Reaction Modifier. Among other things, he has convinced investors to back his shipping company, he is attempting to win the favour of the most respected elder stateswoman noble lady by bankrolling an orphanage (at her suggestion), he has negotiated a license to sell weapons for his company and is now getting a mercenary licence. He has three warships with letters of marquee and retribution for the city and he recently agreed to add four more that he will bankroll, but which will be under the control of the city whenever they need additional naval force. And he just gave the city $330,000 worth of weapons and loaned them $1,000,000 interest free for a year.

He's making a point of spending money, time and effort on buying influence in the city. The licenses he got will probably pay for his largesse many times over, but that might not be obvious to everyone, since the windfalls will come from another country where he's sending his mercenaries. A more traditional analysis would be that his 'investment' might pay off in ten years or so.

This means that his name will have come up in the Lord's Council and the Merchant's Council at least three times. Twice it would have been a matter of little importance, i.e. just ratifying his letters of marquee and his weapon-trading license, but the recent mercenary license will probably get a day or so of discussion (where we are in the game, the city's Chancellor has signed an agreement, but it's not ratified yet).

[bolondro2]

In a group of 4.000 persons and not having Internet or TV, you can assume that everyone who is a bit remarkable it's known by anyone. And, of course, the elites are better informed. But how are they known?

The merchant it's for the standard 2+status person simply another +2 status man. All the positives modifiers are only for persons you have made business (business acumen and smooth operator)with, or have, at least, meet and spoke with him. People who actually knows you you. For the people who had just hear about him, he is just another +2 status guy. Not enough for getting easily the attention from the upper end of the city.

And for the knight, he was a +2//+1to reaction 2 knight unless you meet him personally and can see their shining smiley (+2 charisma) and Rodolfo Valentino appearance. Just a +2 knight. He can get the attention, but must carry a chair for the long wait.


but looking at the actions made by your merchant, I feel he MUST buy some kind of reputation. He is making important things, it's known who made it and the people usually have made an opinion about people who make important things.

Also can not be forgotten that a man who wants grow in politic always make a lot of enemies (rivals). And if he is not careful, some enemies (hunter).

[Icelander]

What do you know?

A recent chat with Sir Michael's player about how his character hadn't been all that Stubborn in recent times and how his enthusiastic and increasing mastery of 'proper' manners meant that he wasn't all that (Uneducated) any more resulted in the character buying off both disadvantages with stored points.

His reaction modifiers with everyone have gone up +2. Original post edited to match.

[Icelander]

Aside from the two PCs noted in the first post of this thread, there is another PC who has been amassing some social notoriety. As it happens, this has occured in quite another part of the world, where the PCs' mercenary/trading company has interests.

In this part of the world, the past fifteen years have seen revolutions, the complete collapse of the old regime, religion and order and two foreign invasions, one of which disintegrated into chaotic bands of mercenaries serving various lords, foreign and domestic. So something like post-Communist Eastern Bloc combined with Thirty-Years-War Germanies.

The PC, Ankhapet Si'Hamet, is a relatively insignificant son of an emir in a neighbouring polity, who could hardly hope to inherit at home, but whose station means that he was educated in civilised arts, including the art of statecraft. Unfortunately, he does not have Charisma, but he has Attractive Appearance, Voice and two levels of a talent called Cultured, including artistic and educational skills. He also has the skills expected of a ruler, warlord and statesman at levels 16-18.

The PCs have, since they got involved in the local war, won two naval battles, one of which was strategically almost as important as Trafalgar. On land, they've negotiated one surrender of a strong and prestigious expeditionary force* and won actions, at least two of which were significant. Added to that, there have been several smaller naval encounters, all of which have gone the PCs' way.

Only one of the land battles has been under the direct command of Ankhapet, but as he is the one that the PCs are leaving as Viceroy over their holdings in the land, he's the one primarily basking in the reputation from these victories. He was, after all, the one in overall command at the time they were won.

Even more to the favour of the PCs in general and Ankhapet in specific, it is directly due to their efforts that the capital and center of power has gone from a famine situation to being better fed than at any time in the last seventeen years. While the PCs have not taken the liberty of giving food away in their own names**, instead selling it to factions of which they approve and, once there was enough, to individuals, it is publicly known who owns the ships that transport the food, not to mention who it was that broke the blockade in the first place.

The question is, how likely is it that a foreign born man*** would become a public hero in the land, with these events and his stats?

The player wishes to cultivate a heroic myth and establish a cult of personality around himself in preparation for future political events. He wants to buy a few levels of Charisma, which I'm inclined to allow****. Reputation and Status, however, I prefer to assign rather than allow it to be purchased with points, seeing as gathering wealth, power and reputation is the whole point of adventuring in this campaign.

Ankhapet now represents a foreign mercenary company that comprises around a fifth of the armed forces of the rump polity of Free Unther, among those nearly all of its naval forces. He does not have any formal position in the government of Unther, but is a trusted ally of the CiC of the military, along with the main battlefield commander. The company he represents is also firmly allied with the faction that controls about half the votes of the Council that governs, though he himself does not have strong personal relationships among that faction. He does have a friendly relationship with the third largest faction, despite privately despising them.

In a country where xenophobia and national pride used to be endemic, but where old certainties must certainly be melting away and anyone who can feed them can't be all bad, how hard is it for Ankhapet to become a hero to the common people? What are things he would have to do? What must he avoid?

Ankhapet has, at least, taken the first steps toward creating a legend. He wears an alabaster mask over half his face, to hide the scars from a black dragon's acid. He slew the dragon that scarred him, along with another drake in that same fight, and he carries a bow made from the bones, horn and sinews of that dragon.

When he commanded a brigade of mercenaries, he pursued a retreating regiment of enemy until they were forced to make a stand. During a parley between the two sides, the enemy leader offered to fight him man to man. If he lost, the enemy would surrender, but if Ankhapet were defeated, the enemy commander would be allowed to march with his men unmolested away. Ankhapet accepted the challenge and fought the leader of the Mulhorandi, who was a divinely-inspired champion mightier than any normal man.

In an epic duel, Ankhaphet was defeated and almost killed. When he came to, he entreated his men to respect the bargain he had made. Later, once the enemy had taken refuge in a fort and Ankhapet had recovered from his wounds, he and a few of his friends assaulted the gate and took it, killing the enemy commander there. Ankhapet was again almost slain and indeed has not yet recovered fully from his wounds there, but with his sacrifice, the fort was taken with very little cost to the rest of his force.

While he is a great scholar and even knows some magic and no man can match him as an archer and horseman, it is probably pretty clear to his men that cannot meet divinely powered heroes in hand-to-hand combat. It is to be hoped that they interpret his actions so that he would nevertheless rather face an overwhelming force than admit fear or risk his men unecessarily.

*Which was placed in a terrible position with the loss of its fleet, causing its sensible leader to elect surrender over a hopeless last stand.
**Which would be a direct challenge to the local factions, indicating that they are more interested in political power than in serving their employers honourably.
***Albeit one from a somewhat known culture which is not viewed with any hostility and might even rate an occasional favourite mention in the writings of the more cosmopolitan historians.
****Plenty of real leaders appear to have developed their magnetic personalities over the course of their careers, becoming able to command the will of other men more easily as their self-image solidified.