Deep dive on differences between GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and DFRPG templates

[Michael Thayne]

I've finally sat down to start carefully comparing changes DFRPG made to the occupational templates in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. I had some idea of general changes to expect, e.g. traits that had significantly reworker or removed entirely, and DFRPG making certain things previously labeled "power-ups" available to starting characters. But other changes I didn't have a great handle on, and I suspect other people are curious about the details of these changes. I'm going to start by posting my notes for the Barbarian and Bard; others will come later as I do them.

Barbarian
Loses 2 mandatory levels of Outdoorsman (-20 points), and made Animal Handling an optional skill (-2 points). These points get spent on removing Gigantism (8 points), adding more points in advantage options (10 points), and raising main melee weapon skill by a level (4 points).

Quite a few changes got made to optional traits, some of which I expected, but others which I did not: new options to raise DX, HP, and Basic Speed with advantage points, adding Code of Honor, Greed, Obsession, Sense of Duty (Nature), and Wounded to disadvantage options, adding Strategy and Tactics to optional skills, and (for some reason) raising the maximum level of Temperature Tolerance from 2 to 3.

Bard
Loses 2 mandatory levels of Musical Ability (-10), and has fewer points budgeted for spells (-5). This pays for an improved Bardic Talent (4 points—a great deal given that it replaces bonuses previously gotten from Musical Ability in addition to offering broader spell selection), as well as adding more points in advantage options (10 points), and raising Carousing by a level (1 point).

In terms of changed options, the two lists of advantage options have been merged, so there’s no longer a minimum number of points you have to spend on Bard-Song abilities. The Bard also gains Empathy as an advantage option, but loses Smooth Operator and Social Chameleon. (Technically the last two could be counted as "general changes", but I’d previously missed them.) The second two lists of optional disadvantages have also been merged.

[Michael Thayne]

The changes on the next three templates are, as far as I can tell, all fairly minor. All follow the Bard in merging point pools for optional advantages, such that they have no minimum number of points which they must spend on special abilities.

Cleric
Spirit Empathy got added to the list of advantage options. As best I can tell all other changes are de rigueur for DFRPG.

Druid
Picked up Animal Empathy as an optional advantage, and Diplomacy as an optional skill.

Holy Warrior
As far as I can tell, the only changes are ones that reflect DFRPG-wide trends (including the merging of advantage pools).

[Michael Thayne]

Knight
Okay, so the changes here are small, but subtle enough that I was having trouble making the point math work last week, though after focusing on other stuff this weekend I finally figured it out. Because Born War Leader now adds to Connoisseur (Weapons), the game could drop the investment in that skill from 4 points to 2 (-2 point change) and still have the skill level increase from 11 to 12. These two extra points got spent raising Leadership a level (1 point) and increasing the number of optional skills from 4 to 5 (1 point). Speaking of optional skills, two options also got added: Fast Draw (any other) and Riding (Horse). In GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, the only way to get Riding (Horse) had been to spend a full 8 points on it, having it replace one of your melee weapon skill options.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Knight
Okay, so the changes here are small, but subtle enough that I was having trouble making the point math work last week, though after focusing on other stuff this weekend I finally figured it out. Because Born War Leader now adds to Connoisseur (Weapons), the game could drop the investment in that skill from 4 points to 2 (-2 point change) and still have the skill level increase from 11 to 12. These two extra points got spent raising Leadership a level and increasing the number of optional skills from 4 to 5. Speaking of optional skills, two options also got added: Fast Draw (any other) and Riding (Horse). In GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, the only way to get Riding (Horse) had been to spend a full 8 points on it, having it replace one of your melee weapon skill options.

Even in DF, you can spend quirk points on anything the gm allows.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by corwyn

Even in DF, you can spend quirk points on anything the gm allows.

True. To be clear, I know why it was done that way in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1—because in GURPS attacking with a melee weapon while mounted uses the lower of weapon skill or Riding. Still odd there was no option to just be able to ride a horse without necessarily being great at mounted combat.

[sjmdw45]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

True. To be clear, I know why it was done that way in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1—because in GURPS attacking with a melee weapon while mounted uses the lower of weapon skill or Riding. Still odd there was no option to just be able to ride a horse without necessarily being great at mounted combat.

Note: the same restriction applies in DFRPG, sort of, per Adventurers page 87:

"Mounted combat is beyond the scope of Dungeon Fantasy, but here’s a quick-and-dirty rule: You and your mount move on your turn at your mount’s Move; your effective combat skills cannot exceed Riding; mounted melee attacks have -1 to hit, +1 damage; and you must roll vs. Riding for each jump or other stunt."

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

True. To be clear, I know why it was done that way in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1—because in GURPS attacking with a melee weapon while mounted uses the lower of weapon skill or Riding. Still odd there was no option to just be able to ride a horse without necessarily being great at mounted combat.

I'm confused; isn't that exactly what spending a quirk point does? A standard knight spending 1 point gets Riding-13 - hardly great at mounted combat.