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Old 11-08-2019, 08:33 AM   #1
qchap
 
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Default Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

I liked the idea of sacrificial magic in 54+ page in Thaumatology book. But what if I want it to exist, but not being a campaign feature, but an ability of some people (e.g. Blood Magicians). How should a PC buy it, if he is one of them?
I think it should be some advantage, like some form Unusual Background, but I am not sure. Then, there should be the spell and/or technique as suggested in Thaumatology.
But there are so many options! And I think different Blood Cults (or anything) should have differend approaches and different options. So, I somehow have to cost all of them. Any suggestions?
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:33 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Those sacrifice rules are in the "minor spell variants" section, so they're assuming the rest of the magic system is the same. That is, the Advantage would be Magery.

If you want "regular" magic and sacrifice magic both to exist in the campaign, have two types of Magery. You might or might not want to declare that they're mutually exclusive -- that is, a character can have only one of the two types of Magery.

If you want even more of a split, you can declare that the details of the magic-working that are hidden in those spell-skills mean that there are two different, parallel schools of magic. Sacrifice spells aren't the same as the non-sacrifice kind, even if they have the same names and stats (for convenience or balance). If you want to be able to cast a spell both ways, you'd have to buy it twice, and if the spell had a Magery prereq, you'd need both Advantages.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:25 PM   #3
Anders
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by qchap View Post
I liked the idea of sacrificial magic in 54+ page in Thaumatology book. But what if I want it to exist, but not being a campaign feature, but an ability of some people (e.g. Blood Magicians). How should a PC buy it, if he is one of them?
I think it should be some advantage, like some form Unusual Background, but I am not sure. Then, there should be the spell and/or technique as suggested in Thaumatology.
But there are so many options! And I think different Blood Cults (or anything) should have differend approaches and different options. So, I somehow have to cost all of them. Any suggestions?
Unusual Background is one option. Another is to make it an enhancement to the Magery advantage.
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Old 11-09-2019, 04:41 AM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

A 1-point Perk would probably be sufficient for someone who can use sacrificial magic when most others cannot (it is the Extra Option Perk).
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Unusual Background is one option.
I like the UB method. One it nicely explains why the Character can gain mana from sacrifices when most people cannot, and two depending on how useful this is in your campaign, you can easily adjust the cost to the setting required. From a Perk all the way up to as expensive as you think is necessary.


My suggestion:

Blood Mage (UB) 5 points

This advantage lets the mage learn the Blood Magic Technique and alters the following spells for them: Detect Magic, Sense Mana, Aura, Mage Sight, and Seek Magic to be able to also sense Blood Ritual energies (which are normally imperceptible to mages), furthermore the spells Lend Energy, Share Energy, and Steal Energy are altered to also allow the sharing/stealing of Sacrificial Energy. So for example, Detect Magic could sense if an object had Sacrificial Energy in it, Sense mana could sense the lingering residue of of a Blood Ritual in the area, Aura would see an individual who has stolen or lost energy to a sacrificial ritual, Mage Sight would detect someone 'filled' with sacrificial energy, and Seek Mana could be tuned into seeking living beings that have an abundance of energy to steal...


Blood Magic Technique Average
Default: Thaumatology -10.
Prerequisite: Magery 0, Thaumatology, cannot exceed Thaumatology.

You can tap into sacrificial energy to power your spells as a part of Ceremonial Magic. The Ceremonial setup is 'the same' (as in uses the same rules) up till the end, at which point it requires a Thaumatology roll to determine if the ritual was performed properly. A failure on this roll means the energy dissipates into the 'wherever life force goes when something dies'* and is not accessible to the Blood Mage. If successful they harness the energy and may immediately attempt to cast their spell.

* or just back into the victim if the ritual wasn't meant to kill the victim, just drain them some measure.




Further this system should be under an alternate "Corruption" mechanic, if you have Horror, well, it has the perfect system already, if not, then the Thaumatology Threshold Limited system can be tweaked to fit. If you do go with Horror, I recommend letting Corruption slowly 'heal' over time, say a point a day (or week) during which time they do nothing to further increase their Corruption (or faster if they somehow 'atone'). Or you could create a 'ceremonial' spell that would allow the mage to force their corruption into someone else, I'd base it on Steal Energy/Vitality and invert it, for every 3 FP or HP the mage spends they can force 1 point of Corruption into a willing or helpless subject, this takes one minute per Corruption Point, up to the maximum amount of Sacrificial Energy the subject could have yielded (and yes, if the mage is running about Corrupting animals, then the effects on the animal should be magnified, and of course, simply turning around and killing the victim should return the Corruption the mage... possibly two-fold...)

If you do use a Corruption mechanic, the 'Sharing' spells (Lend Energy, Share Energy) should also spread corruption to the recipient, and there should be some way for the Truly Good (or Divinely powered) to sense corruption. Or you could just allow the Aura spell be able to sense Corruption for anyone that can cast it. It depends on how 'easy' you want Blood Mages to be detectable, or if you want them to be detectable by non-Blood mages at all.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:20 PM   #6
Plane
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
A 1-point Perk would probably be sufficient for someone who can use sacrificial magic when most others cannot (it is the Extra Option Perk).
Exactly this on page 24 of Thaumatology: Magical Styles, it's called "Extra Option : Blood Magic" if you can use T246 to get skill bonuses. Otherwise mages are limited to B237 "Burning HP" just to cover energy costs.

If that's something all mages can do, then the Extra Option perk is basically a setting feature.

...

Upon review, qchap referenced T54 though, which is similar to Burning HP in that you're using HP to fuel energy costs and not get a skill bonus... but you're using OTHER people's HP...

Having it be a standalone spell seems like it would cover the idea of some people being unable to do it.

Last edited by Plane; 11-09-2019 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:14 AM   #7
qchap
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I like the UB method. One it nicely explains why the Character can gain mana from sacrifices when most people cannot, and two depending on how useful this is in your campaign, you can easily adjust the cost to the setting required. From a Perk all the way up to as expensive as you think is necessary.


My suggestion:

Blood Mage (UB) 5 points

This advantage lets the mage learn the Blood Magic Technique and alters the following spells for them: Detect Magic, Sense Mana, Aura, Mage Sight, and Seek Magic to be able to also sense Blood Ritual energies (which are normally imperceptible to mages), furthermore the spells Lend Energy, Share Energy, and Steal Energy are altered to also allow the sharing/stealing of Sacrificial Energy. So for example, Detect Magic could sense if an object had Sacrificial Energy in it, Sense mana could sense the lingering residue of of a Blood Ritual in the area, Aura would see an individual who has stolen or lost energy to a sacrificial ritual, Mage Sight would detect someone 'filled' with sacrificial energy, and Seek Mana could be tuned into seeking living beings that have an abundance of energy to steal...


Blood Magic Technique Average
Default: Thaumatology -10.
Prerequisite: Magery 0, Thaumatology, cannot exceed Thaumatology.

You can tap into sacrificial energy to power your spells as a part of Ceremonial Magic. The Ceremonial setup is 'the same' (as in uses the same rules) up till the end, at which point it requires a Thaumatology roll to determine if the ritual was performed properly. A failure on this roll means the energy dissipates into the 'wherever life force goes when something dies'* and is not accessible to the Blood Mage. If successful they harness the energy and may immediately attempt to cast their spell.

* or just back into the victim if the ritual wasn't meant to kill the victim, just drain them some measure.




Further this system should be under an alternate "Corruption" mechanic, if you have Horror, well, it has the perfect system already, if not, then the Thaumatology Threshold Limited system can be tweaked to fit. If you do go with Horror, I recommend letting Corruption slowly 'heal' over time, say a point a day (or week) during which time they do nothing to further increase their Corruption (or faster if they somehow 'atone'). Or you could create a 'ceremonial' spell that would allow the mage to force their corruption into someone else, I'd base it on Steal Energy/Vitality and invert it, for every 3 FP or HP the mage spends they can force 1 point of Corruption into a willing or helpless subject, this takes one minute per Corruption Point, up to the maximum amount of Sacrificial Energy the subject could have yielded (and yes, if the mage is running about Corrupting animals, then the effects on the animal should be magnified, and of course, simply turning around and killing the victim should return the Corruption the mage... possibly two-fold...)

If you do use a Corruption mechanic, the 'Sharing' spells (Lend Energy, Share Energy) should also spread corruption to the recipient, and there should be some way for the Truly Good (or Divinely powered) to sense corruption. Or you could just allow the Aura spell be able to sense Corruption for anyone that can cast it. It depends on how 'easy' you want Blood Mages to be detectable, or if you want them to be detectable by non-Blood mages at all.
Lots of useful information, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Exactly this on page 24 of Thaumatology: Magical Styles, it's called "Extra Option : Blood Magic" if you can use T246 to get skill bonuses. Otherwise mages are limited to B237 "Burning HP" just to cover energy costs.

If that's something all mages can do, then the Extra Option perk is basically a setting feature.

...

Upon review, qchap referenced T54 though, which is similar to Burning HP in that you're using HP to fuel energy costs and not get a skill bonus... but you're using OTHER people's HP...

Having it be a standalone spell seems like it would cover the idea of some people being unable to do it.
I think 1-point perk is too cheap. And there would be Blood Mages of different approaches and so on. One of them - the ritual, which grants as much energy, as character points the subject have (usually 50-200, which is a lot), there is an option in Thaumatology for this. I think it should cost more then 1-point perk and some points in the spell.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:29 AM   #8
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Further this system should be under an alternate "Corruption" mechanic, if you have Horror, well, it has the perfect system already, if not, then the Thaumatology Threshold Limited system can be tweaked to fit.
Alternatively, you could say that anyone using sacrifices is actually using Spirit-Assisted magic (Thaumatology p.90-93) -- with the spirits in question being a nasty type who want blood as the price of their assistance. That way, you've got the built-in Spiritual Distortion rules as a corruption mechanic.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:02 PM   #9
Plane
 
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Default Re: Thaumatology sacrifice advantage

Maybe whether it's a perk or more costly could depend on what system of reward you're using, where if it tends to give more energy, it's more costly to unlock the option?
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