Burst Archery? - Page 2

RobW · 06-20-2019, 09:29 AM

If a fighter with two weapons skill waited for an opening, and then went in with two attacks on the same opponent, I'd give DX bonus on both attacks, not just the first. Seems to fit naturally with the idea of waiting for an opening.

And I'd probably say the same for an archer whose natural DX was high enough to fire twice/turn.

Then this case, using the +1 DX from waiting to enable a second shot. Hmm. OK, if both shots against the same opponent, yes. It feels in the spirit of the rule and enables a cinematic kind of action.

If it turned out to be some kind of killer tactic then reconsider, but I doubt it would.

JustAnotherJarhead · 08-05-2019, 12:49 AM

I'm sympathetic to the high DX archer, I mean they are just that much quicker... but I see the aimed shot as the sniper, he gets the bonus because he's taking twice as long to insure he hits his mark, aim small, miss small.
If memory serves, the longer he aims the greater the sniper bonus.

Basically what I see is the sacrifice of two shots at speed, for one patient very well placed sniper shot.

Helborn · 08-05-2019, 10:22 PM

The only place that I was able to find the rule for aiming and getting + DX is on ITL pg 124 - Aimed THROWS (my emphasis) where you can get up to +3. BUT, it applies only (?) to throwing flasks of flaming oil?

The Waiting for an Opening on pg 127 is ambiguous. It only allows +2 DX after 2 Turns and only for a "regular or 'aimed shot'". The latter seems to imply missile weapons but could also easily be restricted to Thrown Weapons. How to reconcile the +3 vs +2 DX is a different matter. House rules anyone?

Skarg · 08-06-2019, 01:15 AM

I think Waiting For An Opening applies to any physical attack - sword, thrown weapon, or missile weapon.

That it mentions you can Defend while Waiting For An Opening against your target you are "going to attack" on some later turn strongly implies to me it can be a sword/axe etc. It specifically allows both thrown and missile attacks on the final line of the rule.

Theohippip · 08-06-2019, 07:59 PM

While there is a benefit to taking ones' time when sniping with a firearm (control breathing and heart rate), there is no such benefit to holding a bow of high poundage for very long. A bow of sufficient poundage to be used for hunting or as a weapon would create a lot of strain in short order, even after transferring the load to the back muscles, and I would argue that holding a heavy bow at full draw for more than five seconds would actually result in a decrease in AdjDx from the shaking and loss of focus. Even target archers, with bows of only 40 pounds or so, don't hold them at full draw for more than 5 seconds. This is the great benefit of a compound bow, where the drop-off of weight might be 80% or more, so that you're only holding, say, 14 pounds at full draw rather than 70 pounds. In this case, a longer aim time (longer than one turn) is feasible and beneficial, but of course compounds don't exist in TFT.

JustAnotherJarhead · 08-06-2019, 08:39 PM

does the "aim" bonus have to imply that the archer is holding the full load of the draw? Or is there some consideration for just sighting the enemy, leading him, waiting... then draw and release?

Theohippip · 08-07-2019, 06:50 PM

In the full shot cycle of shooting an arrow, there are twelve distinct steps to the completion of the shot, some discreet and some blending into one another. I won't bother with the early stages but I'll pick up with the draw (Step 6). You then go to the anchor (7), which is always to the same point on your face in order to maintain consistency. You then load and transfer the strain from the arms to the back muscles (8). Only after the transfer do you get around to aiming (9). Finally you release (10), which is generally one to three seconds after aiming. You can see from this that an aimed shot is quite a bit more involved than the "shooting from the hip" which seems to be described in the two shots per turn scenario presented in the thread. If one were to wait at full draw until the next turn, the first shot of that next turn would then be released after considerable physical duress, and the second shot would not be an aimed shot. I'd give each of the two shots a minus on AdjDx.

06-20-2019, 09:29 AM	#11
RobW Join Date: Mar 2018	Re: Burst Archery? If a fighter with two weapons skill waited for an opening, and then went in with two attacks on the same opponent, I'd give DX bonus on both attacks, not just the first. Seems to fit naturally with the idea of waiting for an opening. And I'd probably say the same for an archer whose natural DX was high enough to fire twice/turn. Then this case, using the +1 DX from waiting to enable a second shot. Hmm. OK, if both shots against the same opponent, yes. It feels in the spirit of the rule and enables a cinematic kind of action. If it turned out to be some kind of killer tactic then reconsider, but I doubt it would.

08-05-2019, 12:49 AM	#12
JustAnotherJarhead Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Cali	Re: Burst Archery? I'm sympathetic to the high DX archer, I mean they are just that much quicker... but I see the aimed shot as the sniper, he gets the bonus because he's taking twice as long to insure he hits his mark, aim small, miss small. If memory serves, the longer he aims the greater the sniper bonus. Basically what I see is the sacrifice of two shots at speed, for one patient very well placed sniper shot.

08-05-2019, 10:22 PM	#13
Helborn Join Date: Aug 2005	Re: Burst Archery? The only place that I was able to find the rule for aiming and getting + DX is on ITL pg 124 - Aimed THROWS (my emphasis) where you can get up to +3. BUT, it applies only (?) to throwing flasks of flaming oil? The Waiting for an Opening on pg 127 is ambiguous. It only allows +2 DX after 2 Turns and only for a "regular or 'aimed shot'". The latter seems to imply missile weapons but could also easily be restricted to Thrown Weapons. How to reconcile the +3 vs +2 DX is a different matter. House rules anyone? __________________ Helborn

08-06-2019, 01:15 AM	#14
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Burst Archery? I think Waiting For An Opening applies to any physical attack - sword, thrown weapon, or missile weapon. That it mentions you can Defend while Waiting For An Opening against your target you are "going to attack" on some later turn strongly implies to me it can be a sword/axe etc. It specifically allows both thrown and missile attacks on the final line of the rule. Last edited by Skarg; 08-06-2019 at 01:20 AM.

08-06-2019, 07:59 PM	#15
Theohippip Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Downstate or Upstate New York. Depends on your definition.	Re: Burst Archery? While there is a benefit to taking ones' time when sniping with a firearm (control breathing and heart rate), there is no such benefit to holding a bow of high poundage for very long. A bow of sufficient poundage to be used for hunting or as a weapon would create a lot of strain in short order, even after transferring the load to the back muscles, and I would argue that holding a heavy bow at full draw for more than five seconds would actually result in a decrease in AdjDx from the shaking and loss of focus. Even target archers, with bows of only 40 pounds or so, don't hold them at full draw for more than 5 seconds. This is the great benefit of a compound bow, where the drop-off of weight might be 80% or more, so that you're only holding, say, 14 pounds at full draw rather than 70 pounds. In this case, a longer aim time (longer than one turn) is feasible and beneficial, but of course compounds don't exist in TFT.

08-06-2019, 08:39 PM	#16
JustAnotherJarhead Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Cali	Re: Burst Archery? does the "aim" bonus have to imply that the archer is holding the full load of the draw? Or is there some consideration for just sighting the enemy, leading him, waiting... then draw and release?

08-07-2019, 06:50 PM	#17
Theohippip Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Downstate or Upstate New York. Depends on your definition.	Re: Burst Archery? In the full shot cycle of shooting an arrow, there are twelve distinct steps to the completion of the shot, some discreet and some blending into one another. I won't bother with the early stages but I'll pick up with the draw (Step 6). You then go to the anchor (7), which is always to the same point on your face in order to maintain consistency. You then load and transfer the strain from the arms to the back muscles (8). Only after the transfer do you get around to aiming (9). Finally you release (10), which is generally one to three seconds after aiming. You can see from this that an aimed shot is quite a bit more involved than the "shooting from the hip" which seems to be described in the two shots per turn scenario presented in the thread. If one were to wait at full draw until the next turn, the first shot of that next turn would then be released after considerable physical duress, and the second shot would not be an aimed shot. I'd give each of the two shots a minus on AdjDx.