10-13-2015, 12:21 AM | #31 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
While different books, movies etc. have different takes on guns, swords, physics they all base it somewhat off of reality. So having it work they way it does in book, movie etc. X is doable by tweaking rules. Often large tweaks (see the swords in a world with guns threads).
Magic has no reality to base off of so it depends on how you want the metaphysics to work in your world. Magic may be so useful that someone without magic has more crippling problems then someone with major handicaps in the real world. Maybe it is so hard to learn and does so little useful that unless you want to learn it because it fascinates you you don't. The Basic magic system was written to be compatible with games that have magic that works like most RPGs. This is fine if you want that but does not work in many games. Thankfully they have written several other systems that work better for other styles. Psionics has a similar problem. |
10-13-2015, 08:24 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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10-13-2015, 11:30 AM | #33 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
I like the concept of simplifying spells, turning the almost endless variations originally presented as entirely separate spells into Techniques. I think part of why the discussion gets so easily off on tangents is it exposes that GURPS actually still has a lot of areas where it could have better internal consistency. Adjusting for settings, we probably need to be able to model powers, psionics and spells (plus other bits) as Skills or Advantages or Advantages that also use Skills.
Again to streamline the Standard Magic System as is scc's goal, I like this approach. It might make world shattering mages less expensive or make certain spells a bit hard to access, but I'd rather get there and then address those problems than continuing to struggle with the current issues. I mean just making Magic into its own Attribute would help (and is an old, old suggestion I know).
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
10-17-2015, 09:09 AM | #34 |
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
I can't wait to see what he does with the next college. Which one is next?
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10-17-2015, 08:06 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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01-26-2016, 11:11 PM | #36 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
OK, kicking around some ideas for a DF game where I wanted Wizard spells to be organized into 6 Magery tiers like Clerics and Druids prompted me to return to this work. So I decided to start at the start this time, with the Air College, of course once I was about half way through I realized that the next two colleges I'd want to do are Water and Weather, because so many Air spells are also part of those two colleges and given how aggressively I cut the list down (5 spells!) I'd merge those three together to get a single college. Of course this is for DF, so core Weather spells may not end up added.
The following lists the fate of every spell in the Air Spells chapter that isn't a pointer to somewhere else in the book. Clear the Air replaces: Purify Air, Create Air, No-Smell, Odor, Devitalize Air, Destroy Air Winds of Change replaces Shape Air Storm Front replaces Windstorm and Sandstorm A Breathe of Fresh Air replaces Breathe Air and Breathe Water Tornado Transport replaces Air Vortex Seek Air is part of Finder, a Knowledge that replaces all 'Seek' spells Air Vision folded into Knowledge spell protecting/providing vision Air Jet, Body of Air, Walk on Air, Wall of Wind, Earth to Air, Concussion, Essential Air, Body of Wind, Summon (Air) Elemental, Control (Air) Elemental and Create (Air) Elemental are all folded into generic spells in a new trans-elemental college, along with similar spells from other colleges. The trans-elemental college isn't a proper college, rather it's a container for spells that have almost incidental effects, only varying in which element is used, such as the Jet and Wall of spells. One other thing I'm planning on doing is creating more types of elemental, one for each Body meta-trait, how do people feel about sicking an Aid Elemental on their players for the next session. Finally instead of posting things to the forums directly as I've been preparing this for a possible submission to SJ Games I've uploaded a copy of my working document to Google Docs, and have given people the ability to comment, it SHOULD appear in proper SJ Games manicurist format: GURPS Air Spells Redone |
01-27-2016, 03:53 AM | #37 | ||||||
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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Here's a list of skills with Prerequisite skills (Advantage prerequisites ignored): Aquabatics, Body Control, Engineer (And more on some specialties of it), Enthrallment, Flying Leap, Group Performance, Invisibility Art, Light Walk, Musical Influence, Pressure Secrets, Shiphandling, Submarine (Free-Flooding Sub), Surgery, Zen Archery. Quote:
That being said, I'm not really a fan of Advantages as magic either because I think certain traits are over priced for modifiers and underpriced for others. I also think that the Limitations and Enhancements interact poorly with one another, especially when building afflictions (One of the building blocks of magic). Multiplicative modifiers helps a bit with this as an optional rule, but it's clunky to fit into some situations. I much prefer RPM but that system has the flaw of generalist being far too advantageous. There's some ideas how to fix this, but I haven't chosen my favorite method of fixing this since my players stopped being interested in magic recently. Quote:
That would follow more of a 4E design schema. Instead it's very 3E where 3E Fantasy was a specific setting, and Magic is a specific magic system. In 4E nebulous concept books tend to be tools for building a genre. Fantasy 4E is about building your own fantasy world. Space is about building your own space setting. So Magic should be about building your own magic system. Sub books should focus this creativity to specific genres.
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01-27-2016, 03:57 PM | #38 |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
GURPS Magic is my favorite magic system not only in all of GURPS, but in all of tabletop role-playing, of those I have seen to date. My entire list of issues with it come down to a fairly short list:
RPM brings a flavor to the table, but it's not the flavor I want from my magic. Powers is there, but lots of work if you want anything other than a fairly basic Super character with mana-sensitive powers. Sorcery is largely the same, but with lots of worked examples and a very good use of Alternate Abilities. As soon as I saw "magic spells are skills, learned in the same way as other skills" that really clicked with me on a level no other magic system has. When I saw how I could finally make a wizard who could cast both Healing and Fireball without having to be a priest to some random fantasy god I can hold no respect for or selling his soul to the devil for power, just a secular scholarly wizard able to burn things and restore HP with the system casting no judgements on his morals nor declaring by fiat that such a combination was "unbalanced", that is when I fell in love with GURPS.
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01-28-2016, 12:04 AM | #39 | ||||
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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01-28-2016, 09:45 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
I forgot a few things before, so I'm adding them now.
There ARE ways to get positive modifiers for spellcasting, the simplest is to cast in a High or Very High Mana area, but this is not without risks. The second is to use tools, apparently these do actually exist, even if there are no published prices. Thaumatology's Magical Modifiers are obvious, even if hard to arrange for certain spells. Finally the Stabilization perk may allow you to claim that casting the spell isn't dangerous, giving that +4 mod. The reason I made things a Google Doc this time was that there's the possibility of me submitting this for publication, so how does this compare with expected document standards? |
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