[DF] Clerical enchanting

[b-dog]

I am thinking that clerics that create magic items using mana would work much better for DF than sanctity based magic items; at least as far as dungeon delving goes. So I am thinking that a temple is able to imbue a magic item with mana through prayer, faith and ritual. The problem with a sanctity powered magic item is that it would be useless in a dungeon where the sanctity of good deities is low or nothing. So I would use the clerical enchanting rules in GURPS Fantasy to imbue a magic item with mana. The other option is to make the magic item immune to sanctity levels but this would make the item overpowered IMO and not really fair because other PCs using mana magic items would have difficult times in no mana zones while a cleric or holy warrior would have magic items that work in no mana zones as well as in no sanctity zones. So I think it best to have the clerical and holy warrior have magic items powered by mana and these items can be enchanted by clerics with mana by faith, ritual and prayer. What do you think?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I am thinking that clerics that create magic items using mana would work much better for DF than sanctity based magic items; at least as far as dungeon delving goes. So I am thinking that a temple is able to imbue a magic item with mana through prayer, faith and ritual. The problem with a sanctity powered magic item is that it would be useless in a dungeon where the sanctity of good deities is low or nothing

.

<shrug> If the occasion arose what would make sense mechanically is to hire an enchanter or get a worshiper who is an enchanter to do it with support from 100 of your followers. Or just buy an item. But

1. It isn't necessarily true that a sanctified item would be useless in low sanctity. All it needs is a level of 20
2. It isn't necessarily true that a no sanctity area is an area that where sanctified items are useless. All you need to do is pour a little holy water out and you'll have desecrated an area, making it no longer very high sanctity for the opposition.
3. Holy items (like a holy sword or a grail) or may be better represented as Gadgets anyway

So I think it best to have the clerical and holy warrior have magic items powered by mana and these items can be enchanted by clerics with mana by faith, ritual and prayer. What do you think

?

I think that's a bad idea.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

.

<shrug> If the occasion arose what would make sense mechanically is to hire an enchanter or get a worshiper who is an enchanter to do it with support from 100 of your followers. Or just buy an item. But

It just doens't sit right with me. If there are clerics at a temple who worship a god like say Zeus and then Zeus is unable to provide the power to enchant weapons for his holy warriors and clerics it just seems like Zeus is not very powerful. Also, I would think that hiring an enchanter that has nothing to do with the temple would seems strange as well. It seems like Zeus would be able to imbue weapons with mana, divine power or whatever he wills. I think that Zeus would see the value of using mana to imbue weapons and armor because they could be used in areas of low or not sanctity which is often where his followers must enter to defeat their enemies.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

It just doens't sit right with me. If there are clerics at a temple who worship a god like say Zeus and then Zeus is unable to provide the power to enchant weapons for his holy warriors and clerics it just seems like Zeus is not very powerful. Also, I would think that hiring an enchanter that has nothing to do with the temple would seems strange as well. It seems like Zeus would be able to imbue weapons with mana, divine power or whatever he wills.

It isn't about what Zeus does. An item created by a god would as I said, be better represented as a Gadget.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It isn't about what Zeus does. An item created by a god would as I said, be better represented as a Gadget.

Doesn't DF8 specifically give items created by a god a Divine power source distinct from clerical items?

EDIT: Actually it's cosmic (DF8:50) "Neither sanctity nor man affects it."

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by b-dog

It just doens't sit right with me. If there are clerics at a temple who worship a god like say Zeus and then Zeus is unable to provide the power to enchant weapons for his holy warriors and clerics it just seems like Zeus is not very powerful.

The thing is that this applies equally to everything Zeus powers. If Zeus can empower items that work in areas with utterly opposed sanctity, why can't he provide spells or holy might that does too?

And yes, the existence of no sanctity areas does indeed imply the gods are not omnipotent, and can sometimes completely block each other. That's the point. If you feel some god is so much more powerful than others that his powers can't be blocked by them, just declare *everywhere* counts as normal sanctity for him. And honestly, mana isn't any better in terms of power anyway, now you are saying the god isn't strong enough to overcome the lack of a resource that at least some mere mortal wizards can alter with Metaspells?

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The thing is that this applies equally to everything Zeus powers. If Zeus can empower items that work in areas with utterly opposed sanctity, why can't he provide spells or holy might that does too?

And yes, the existence of no sanctity areas does indeed imply the gods are not omnipotent, and can sometimes completely block each other. That's the point. If you feel some god is so much more powerful than others that his powers can't be blocked by them, just declare *everywhere* counts as normal sanctity for him. And honestly, mana isn't any better in terms of power anyway, now you are saying the god isn't strong enough to overcome the lack of a resource that at least some mere mortal wizards can alter with Metaspells?

In the AD&D Deities and Demigods, often gods would have both clerical and magic-user abilities so I think that a god would imbue magic items that are used around the temple as being sanctity based but those magic items that are for the holy warriors and clerics to battle opposed gods would be better powered by mana. The clerics would pray to the god to have him/her imbue a magic item and the god would most likely determine the manner in which it is imbued (by sanctity or by mana). So in old school terms the god would use his clerical spells to make magic items that are for use around the temple but the god would use his magic-user spells to create magic items that would be used in areas where the god might not have much power over.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

In the AD&D Deities and Demigods, often gods would have both clerical and magic-user abilities so I think that a god would imbue magic items that are used around the temple as being sanctity based but those magic items that are for the holy warriors and clerics to battle opposed gods would be better powered by mana. The clerics would pray to the god to have him/her imbue a magic item and the god would most likely determine the manner in which it is imbued (by sanctity or by mana). So in old school terms the god would use his clerical spells to make magic items that are for use around the temple but the god would use his magic-user spells to create magic items that would be used in areas where the god might not have much power over.

Gods are busy people. That's why they delegate to clerics in the first place.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Gods are busy people. That's why they delegate to clerics in the first place.

A god like Zeus could easily enchant a sword with lightning mana and would do so if the clerics and holy warriors were devout and such a sword was needed to fight against a demon lord or prince in an area where Zeus had little or no sanctity. The reason I think gods would use mana enchantments (aspected toward their sphere of influence of course) is because if they create cosmic magic items then it would be unfair to other players who use mana powered magic weapons. So unless the god wants a super powerful magic item (cosmic) I feel he/she would imbue the magic item with mana because the god would not want so many super-powerful magic items in the mortal world.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

I think it is a bad idea. It breaks the mood. Gods (and their servants) have a limited influence over the World. Thereby, their power doesn't work everywhere.

Sometimes it works where mana-based magic doesn't; sometimes it doesn't work where mana-based magic does; sometimes both work. This is intentional. They are separate powers.

A god (and its servants) should find it difficult to exert power over places they have little power over. Makes sense to me.

Bypassing this restriction feels off to me. Its disruptive for little to no benefit.

I mean, really, if the clerics can create both sanctity- and mana- based items .. why aren't they using both on every item they make so that the items work everywhere?