06-19-2019, 05:08 AM | #31 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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What TFT is or isn't about is not stated anywhere I have read. Therefore it is up to the players and GMs to make of the manuals what they will. |
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06-19-2019, 05:15 AM | #32 | |||
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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Another option might have been to make it so 15 and 16 are always fails. So even someone with a 30 IQ still has a 10% chance of failure (though admittedly that seems high) and all that extra IQ is just for negating penalties or rollging vs 4/IQ and 5/IQ. I don't know...using those high difficulty rules more would have made a difference. Quote:
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06-19-2019, 06:36 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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We played for over 4 years and got multiple PCs into the 40+ point ranges, with 20+ IQ wizards making magic items, putting keeps on asteroids with gate-managed air supplies, etc. We didn't get a whole lot of wishes though. The new system opens up wishes to much more inexperienced PCs. Skargs' point about Shapeshift and its interaction with wishes is interesting as well since you can save wishes up and spend them in succession after you shift, although I wonder what would happen after a series of alternating shifts and wishes followed by a Dissolve Enchantment spell -- where do the wishes go after you return to your original form? One quick fix to that hole might be that wishes operate on your natural attributes, not your shifted attributes. One thing that made lesser wish farming so easy for the 40-point PCs was that 2 7-hex dragons seem to be able to handle an angry lesser demon because they have a higher DX. Their DX is the same as a greater demon but the Aid spell could remedy that. |
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06-19-2019, 09:45 AM | #34 | |
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portland, Maine
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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NOTE: Just as there is a shift in the actual rules and application from MELEE to the more advanced The Fantasy Trip; there is a shift in the actual rules and application from TFT to the more advanced GURPS.
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- Hail Melee Fantasy Chess: A chess game with combat. Don't just take the square, Fight for it! https://www.shadowhex.com Last edited by JohnPaulB; 06-19-2019 at 10:01 AM. Reason: to include shift from Melee to TFT |
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06-19-2019, 11:01 AM | #35 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
Anyone who wants to play the new TFT with 50+ point characters is free to do so. You can do it by fiat, or you can do it by awarding tens of thousands of XP per adventure, or you can do it by house ruling a different stat progression table. All of these require mere moments to decide and write down, and the core book clearly encourages you to do what you need to do in order to have a character progression that you like.
But my advice is to not do it. My reading of the discussion of this issue on this forum is that most people pushing for more open ended stat progression either never played very much TFT before the Legacy Edition came out, or did so so long ago that the details are getting a bit fuzzy. If this is you, then I am expecting you to be back here in a month or two complaining that the game isn't very fun with such characters. Every character becomes more or less the same because no one has to make a meaningful choice regarding what they invest in. Everyone succeeds pretty much all the time at pretty much everything. And, paradoxically, your super powered characters will remain fragile because even 60 point characters are vulnerable to getting killed by dumb luck after a couple hundred turns of combat. In short, the game is designed around the 3d6 bell curve for stats, and once you get yourself well outside of that curve for all three of ST, DX and IQ the whole thing gets kind of pointless. |
06-20-2019, 01:06 AM | #36 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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To cap this off, lesser wish farming is very easy for even a small number of advanced PCs (I made a thread on that -- two properly prepared 40-point wizards should be able to handle an angry lesser demon without much difficulty). If people are playing by the RAW, each 60-point PC should easily be able to replenish their stack of wishes on an as-needed basis. This should ensure that every combat becomes just a matter of how many wishes it costs. Which, I suppose, is a good measure of challenge and a way for the GM to construct adventures through wish-accounting. A GM who decides that NPCs ought to be wish farming too gets an interesting dilemma: whether or not to simply cancel PC wishes as they use them, one at a time. I guess a cancelled wish would be a signal to the players that this combat is a "wish-free zone", as the PCs would cancel NPC wishes as well. I dunno, maybe that would make for a good boss fight in the MMO-TFT world... |
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06-20-2019, 01:36 AM | #37 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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In my opinion, that all adds up to a good, challenging, tactical wargame, but not a game well suited for playing stories of any length. We found other game systems like Tri-Stat, PDQ, and Fate to be much better suited for playing long stories. TFT strikes me as somewhere in-between GURPS and Tri-Stat but easy to house rule to handle longer stories better. My impression of GURPS as a college kid was very good but my impression of it as a grown-up is very negative and I wouldn't recommend GURPS to anyone. I realize that there are a lot of GURPS fans out there, particularly on this list and maybe I'm missing some fundamental understanding of the game. In my experience, however, most role players make do with what they have and seem to have played only one or two systems assuming one RPG is much like another, but there are many different takes on role playing and no system is actually universal. |
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06-20-2019, 03:02 AM | #38 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
"My impression of GURPS as a college kid was very good but my impression of it as a grown-up is very negative and I wouldn't recommend GURPS to anyone. I realize that there are a lot of GURPS fans out there, particularly on this list and maybe I'm missing some fundamental understanding of the game. In my experience, however, most role players make do with what they have and seem to have played only one or two systems assuming one RPG is much like another, but there are many different takes on role playing and no system is actually universal."
I'm not a fan of complex systems with LOTS of rules such as GURPS. Having watched many groups play GURPS, Rolemaster, D&D 4th edition, Dragonquest and other such systems, the one common feature I notice is the very slow pace of play at the table especially when there is some sort of action, but also generally. I've no interest in stultifyingly slow play; I like my games to have a sense of action and tension. I guess it would be possible to play these games with better pacing but you could only do that by ignoring most of the rules. So why bother in the first place. |
06-20-2019, 03:26 AM | #39 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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I'm talking about what the RAW allows and encourages. You may not like the conclusion, but it is there for players to find and use, or for GMs to use as justification for NPCs. The new rule changes have consequences and this is one of them. |
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06-20-2019, 03:30 AM | #40 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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I don't think Dissolve enchantment would have any impact on a Wish that has already been made, any more than it would heal damage from a fire ball. The wishes change has been made, it doesn't linger after that. YMMV and all that. And thank you for pointing out the kinds of games the old system allowed. People are acting like making magic items can't be done or some nonsense when its right there in the book!!! |
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