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Old 01-09-2020, 08:16 AM   #21
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Reflex sights will need to be imported, as they require a compact and robust source of high intensity light (such as a LED) and a compact power source (such as a modern battery), and probably won't be in much demand when maximum hit chances matter more than being roughly on-target very fast.
GURPS gives +1 to Guns with a reflex sight (and a sizable reduction in darkness penalties), which stacks with the bonuses for Aiming, so it seems worthwhile. Having never used a reflex sight - and indeed largely lacking real world firearm experience - I don't know how appropriate that is, although I will note such sights tend to work better than iron sights in most First Person Shooters I've played (although once I've gotten used to the configuration, the difference isn't huge).

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Any of these could be made locally. However, the compensator isn't really needed, and the flash-hider irrelevant if black powder is in use (all that smoke can't be hidden, and there's not that much flash). A suppressor might be useful, though all that smoke makes hiding the fact a gun was fired hard, so most likely it's not.
Yeah, I realized after posting the compensator and muzzle weight probably aren't terribly useful for a single-shot weapon. Flash-hiders don't hide the flash from the target, but rather hide the flash from the shooter. This is easier on the eyes, and can help with avoiding spoiling one's darkness adaptation. See Tactical Shooting for further details. If black powder is being used, suppressors are probably going to get fouled up in rather short order. Of course, thinking about it further, I suspect suppressors would rather interfere with reloading a muzzleloader, so they may be a non-option. Could still work for single shots at night (where the cloud is markedly less obvious), however.

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Unless you intended to change the accessory load-out of your weapon a fair bit, a rail or rails is unnecessary and just added weight. As old-style rifles were pretty heavy anyway, I can't see this being popular, except perhaps with the fashion-sensitive if it gets promoted as the 'latest and greatest' from off-world.
Yeah, probably something more for eccentric-types than typical users. If it makes removing the more shock-sensitive (and expensive, what with needing to be imported from SPAAAAACE) bits for transport markedly easier, you might see them in use for sharpshooters.


One thing that may need answered - what are the weapons being used for? I'm assuming they aren't for any sort of warfare outside of small-scale skirmishes (otherwise the nations in question would be well-served building up the facilities to produce higher-TL weaponry); is this something of a Wild West/Frontier situation? Are weapons used primarily for hunting, formal duels, home defense, or keeping/driving bandit gangs out of town (or being a bandit)? I suspect that's going to greatly impact what accessories are the most worthwhile. FWIW, I've been mostly thinking in terms of hunting and the occasional small-scale skirmish (which probably fits the bandit situation above).
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:29 PM   #22
clu2415
 
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

Here’s something to consider. Scopes with bullet drop markings or trajectory computers are going to be extremely hard to use with a muzzleloader. Without a chronograph to measure your velocity, i don’t know how you would calculate your bullet drop accurately. A trajectory computer needs to know exactly what ammunition you are using: bullet weight, velocity, and aerodynamics. There’s a vast difference between TL 7-8 bullets and round shot or Minie balls. The values would have to calculated and programmed by the supplier.
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:54 PM   #23
martinl
 
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

Here's a fun one:

High tech supplier provides a special paint and a laser sight with integrated computer.

Apply special paint to concave side of Minne ball. Load, aim, shoot.

On board computer on laser sight tracks the shot and monitors if it is on target. If it isn't, it fires a secondary IR laser into the paint (that is tuned to be resistant to black powder explosions but very sensitive to this particular bandwidth of IR) and steers it back on course.

If you are sneaky you can have the high tech laser stuff as a separate package and fire the bullet from a separate location. If you are really sneaky you don't have to tell the person firing the gun what is happening. Sounds like a classic 'hunting accident' mystery set up.

Now this is clearly a weapon but if you ship in the lasers, computer, software and paint in separately you can probably get a few in.

Other problem is that this is complex and one off enough to be ruinously expensive to locals, so only rich bastards, their high end thugs, and off worlders will be able to afford it.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:20 PM   #24
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

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Originally Posted by clu2415 View Post
Here’s something to consider. Scopes with bullet drop markings or trajectory computers are going to be extremely hard to use with a muzzleloader. Without a chronograph to measure your velocity, i don’t know how you would calculate your bullet drop accurately. A trajectory computer needs to know exactly what ammunition you are using: bullet weight, velocity, and aerodynamics. There’s a vast difference between TL 7-8 bullets and round shot or Minie balls. The values would have to calculated and programmed by the supplier.
Considering simply loading the weapon carefully changes the performance enough for +1 to Acc, sights on the weapon probably aren't going to be able to have reliable range markings; they basically just tell you where your nominal aimpoint is (which is useful, but you'll just need to guess and pray for any shot with substantial bullet drop).

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Originally Posted by martinl View Post
Here's a fun one:

High tech supplier provides a special paint and a laser sight with integrated computer.

Apply special paint to concave side of Minne ball. Load, aim, shoot.

On board computer on laser sight tracks the shot and monitors if it is on target. If it isn't, it fires a secondary IR laser into the paint (that is tuned to be resistant to black powder explosions but very sensitive to this particular bandwidth of IR) and steers it back on course.

If you are sneaky you can have the high tech laser stuff as a separate package and fire the bullet from a separate location. If you are really sneaky you don't have to tell the person firing the gun what is happening. Sounds like a classic 'hunting accident' mystery set up.

Now this is clearly a weapon but if you ship in the lasers, computer, software and paint in separately you can probably get a few in.

Other problem is that this is complex and one off enough to be ruinously expensive to locals, so only rich bastards, their high end thugs, and off worlders will be able to afford it.
So, something like laser propulsion for a guided bullet? That may be a bit too advanced, but may potentially be doable. I strongly suspect any laser powerful enough to vaporize the coating at range (particularly considering the coating stood up to burning black powder) isn't going to be available for importation, however - too weapon-like.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

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One thing that may need answered - what are the weapons being used for?
The actual one that appears on the cover of the equipment catalogue for FLAT BLACK would be being used as a carry pistol by some sort of clandestine operator or effective. My idea is to emulate a particular archetype of the covers of thrillers that had a handgun and a few other glamorous or mysterious objects, using things that indicate the interstellar sci-fi setting and suggest the makeshift combination of high-tech imports and local materials that you find on undeveloped worlds in FLAT BLACK.

What I don't want to do is to depict a combination that will be blatantly just dumb to anyone who knows a bit about guns, such as mounting on a pistol a sight that is only useful for very-long-range shots with highly uniform ammunition, or a sight that is good for a rapid second shot on a single-shot weapon.
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Old 01-09-2020, 05:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

Note that reflex sights are relatively tall and somewhat bulky for a pistol sight, so a simple open notch sight might be preferred just because it's smaller, lighter, and doesn't get caught up on the holster and on clothing. They're a small and light sight for a rifle, though.

For example: https://image.sportsmansguide.com/ad...23737m2_ts.jpg (note that this pistol has a rail, but it's not the Picatinny Rail that most people use today).
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Old 01-09-2020, 06:29 PM   #27
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
The actual one that appears on the cover of the equipment catalogue for FLAT BLACK would be being used as a carry pistol by some sort of clandestine operator or effective. My idea is to emulate a particular archetype of the covers of thrillers that had a handgun and a few other glamorous or mysterious objects, using things that indicate the interstellar sci-fi setting and suggest the makeshift combination of high-tech imports and local materials that you find on undeveloped worlds in FLAT BLACK.

What I don't want to do is to depict a combination that will be blatantly just dumb to anyone who knows a bit about guns, such as mounting on a pistol a sight that is only useful for very-long-range shots with highly uniform ammunition, or a sight that is good for a rapid second shot on a single-shot weapon.
What superscience is available in Flat Black? I've seen sci-fi weapons that project a holographic sight above them, which would work for a reflex sight and give that future-tech feel without interfering with drawing the weapon. Without superscience, some sort of folding reflex sight might be doable, but I'll defer to the opinion of those with more firearms knowledge of if that would be a good option for a single-shot weapon (I assume it would be, and certainly it would by GURPS rules, but...). If you really want to get hodge-podgey about it, perhaps the operative could be wearing night vision goggles (possibly flipped away from the head, so that the eyes are visible) and wielding a percussion-cap dueling pistol with attached targeting laser (since you can't use normal sights with NVG's, targeting laser is preferable; at least you can make it IR so normal targets can't see it). Putting an obviously-detachable suppressor on the pistol might also be an option.
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Old 01-09-2020, 06:50 PM   #28
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

One issue with any ultra-tech sights used with muzzle loaders is the fact that the black powder that is left over after the gun fires is quite dirty. In addition, anything attached to the barrel or stock will get in the way of reloading, which should increase time. I would only allow the bonuses to apply for the first shot of a conflict and only allow them to apply again after the gun is cleaned, and I would increase the reload time by 10% per extra attachment.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
What superscience is available in Flat Black?
Fusion Torch reaction drives, an FTL drive, and an explosive device that turns a planet's entire atmosphere into a huge fusion bomb.

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If you really want to get hodge-podgey about it, perhaps the operative could be wearing night vision goggles (possibly flipped away from the head, so that the eyes are visible) and wielding a percussion-cap dueling pistol with attached targeting laser (since you can't use normal sights with NVG's, targeting laser is preferable; at least you can make it IR so normal targets can't see it).
Yes, a picture of somebody using technologically mismatched gear is another possibility. For that, I'm thinking of a flying pickup with a pintle-mounted swivel gun.

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Putting an obviously-detachable suppressor on the pistol might also be an option.
Ooh. Good idea. Nice clean image. /what about one of those aluminium attaché cases with a foam liner with compartments for everything, containing a muzzle-loading pistol, a screw-on suppressor, a demountable sight, a box of bullets, a box of smokeless-propellant cartridges, a box of percussion caps, an oil-bottle and bore brush, and a bullet-mould?
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:34 PM   #30
Varyon
 
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Default Re: High/ultra tech sights/accessories on muzzle-loaders

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
Fusion Torch reaction drives, an FTL drive, and an explosive device that turns a planet's entire atmosphere into a huge fusion bomb.
So... no "floating hologram" sights.

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
Yes, a picture of somebody using technologically mismatched gear is another possibility. For that, I'm thinking of a flying pickup with a pintle-mounted swivel gun.
Heh. That sounds like it would work.

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
Ooh. Good idea. Nice clean image. /what about one of those aluminium attaché cases with a foam liner with compartments for everything, containing a muzzle-loading pistol, a screw-on suppressor, a demountable sight, a box of bullets, a box of smokeless-propellant cartridges, a box of percussion caps, an oil-bottle and bore brush, and a bullet-mould?
I think that would fit perfectly. You might even have the ramrod in its own compartment to make it more obvious, but that's certainly optional. By cartridges, I assume you mean filled paper cartridges? With the bullet-mould being in there, you may want to consider also having some lead beads (or whatever form you keep your lead in before casting), a sealed container of smokeless powder, and extra papers for making additional cartridges, just to really drive home the "make your own ammo" image.
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