Alternate Penetrating Strike

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

I imagine that it sort of functions like a non-Unique Gadget: you can replace it, but it's probably not instantaneous transfer, GM might prescribe a "down" period where you adapt to the new tool.

That's how I interpret it. If you lose the old weapon, or purchase a better one, the ability is lost until you've gotten used to the new weapon. I'd probably take a cue of sorts from Familiarity. 2 hours to get used to a nearly-identical weapon, 4 hours to get used to a similar weapon (one that uses the same skill(s)), 6 hours to get used to a fairly different weapon (one that uses a skill that defaults to the skill of the original weapon), 8 hours to get used to a completely different weapon (one that uses a skill that shares no default with the original). Note if the new weapon has different performance than the original, it may cost more (requiring extra points invested) or less (optionally giving a refund).

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I suppose you might allow AD on the Follow-Up if it's meant to be literally a second attack following exactly behind the first to land in the same spot, so if the first attack fails to penetrate, the FU gets to attack the DR as well rather than simply failing to take effect because the carrier didn't penetrate. But Follow-Ups are often a secondary effect of the carrier, not a second sword / bullet / missile following the first one in.

"Second attack" is the way I've always interpreted Follow-Up, as otherwise it can't be used for explosive bullets and the like. There's nothing in Follow-Up's description that indicates the Follow-Up fails to go off if you don't penetrate DR. Indeed, the text states "The Follow-Up attack only hits if the carrier attack hits. If the carrier attack penetrates the target’s DR, DR has no effect on the Follow-Up attack’s damage or HT rolls." If the intent were "The Follow-Up attack ignore's the target's DR, but only hits if the carrier attack hits and penetrates the target's DR," I suspect that's what would have been written.

Of course, this does make Follow-Up problematic in various cases. A 1 damage pi- dart with a 2d tox Follow-Up (representing an injected poison) would have the dart stopped by light plate (DR 3), but the poison would... somehow still do an average of around 4 HP injury. No Blood also wouldn't protect against such a dart, as it lacks Blood Agent. Allowing penetration modifiers on the Follow-Up helps resolve this, but could be unbalanced, which is probably why the authors opted to disallow the combination. GM assessment would be necessary (although a good hard rule would be Contact Agent is +0% and Blood Agent is -10% if the carrier has Irresistible Attack).

[zoncxs]

Ok, As mentioned, how this ability is built depends on what you want to achieve. I will go over a few builds.

Assuming person with ST 14 1d/2d damage. and the weapon is a shortsword which is sw+0 cutting.

First, giving one specific weapon that you own AD 2.

2d cutting is 14pts. 14 x 0.5 = 7

This would be 7pts total and only functions when using that specific weapon. It does not work for any other weapon, only that one specific weapon.


Second, use imbuements.
Imbue (one skill only) [8] + Penetrating Strike (VH) DX+0 [8] + Unusual Training Perk [1] = Penetrating Strike [17]

Penetrating Strike (Cosmic, No die roll required, +100%; PM, ‑10%; Reduced Fatigue Cost 1,+20%; Visible, ‑10%) [34]

This lets you give any weapon you pick up and use AD 2.

Making the imbuement limited to one weapon would be:

Penetrating Strike (Cosmic, NDRR, +100%; PM, ‑10%; Reduced Fatigue Cost 1,+20%; Visible, ‑10%; One Skill Only, -60%) [24]

That limits it to only weapons used with one specific skill.


So you are looking at 7pts or 34/24pts. What is the difference you ask? That 7pt ability only works for that one weapon, for that damage range. If your ST goes up you will also have to pay the difference for the increased damage, got a better weapon? Now you have to wait a while ingame before you get "familiar" enough with that weapon to use your ability with it, and still pay the difference.

The other option does not care about damage. You could find a belt of strength that grants you STx10, price does not change. You could find a magical weapon that does sw+100 cut ex., price does not change.

[KBH]

Hi zoncxs,
thank you very much for you detailed explanation.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

(1) Imbue (one skill only) [8] + Penetrating Strike (VH) DX+0 [8] + Unusual Training Perk [1] = Penetrating Strike [17]

(2) Penetrating Strike (Cosmic, No die roll required, +100%; PM, ‑10%; Reduced Fatigue Cost 1,+20%; Visible, ‑10%) [34]

This lets you give any weapon you pick up and use AD 2.

Making the imbuement limited to one weapon would be:

Penetrating Strike (Cosmic, NDRR, +100%; PM, ‑10%; Reduced Fatigue Cost 1,+20%; Visible, ‑10%; One Skill Only, -60%) [24]

That limits it to only weapons used with one specific skill.

Would you be please so kind and explain your provided 2nd option in more detail? I do not fully understand the correlation between (1) Imbue (one skill only) ... and (2) Penetrating Strike (Cosmic, ...).
Is (2) your suggestion to re-create the Imbue approach with Powers? Do I have to apply (1) and (2) together i.e., paying 17+34 points?

Thanks and best
KBH

[zoncxs]

(1) Imbue (one skill only) [8] + Penetrating Strike (VH) DX+0 [8] + Unusual Training Perk [1]

We take that and bundle it together and call it "Penetrating Strike" [17]

Now that we have a new advantage we can apply modifiers to it like so:

(2) Penetrating Strike (Cosmic, No die roll required, +100%; PM, ‑10%; Reduced Fatigue Cost 1,+20%; Visible, ‑10%) [34]

The (1) and (2) are steps.

So for all imbuement skills that require Imbue 3, the cost to make them into advantages is [34]. They cost 0 FP to use and you do not roll to use them, the drawback to this is that you can not take penalties for increased effects. In the above example you could not take a -2 to have a higher AD since you do not roll.

To be able to do such things you need to buy higher skill levels as advantages:

+1 to a skill is [4], applying that to step (2) raises the cost by [8]

So to have Penetrating Strike ignore armor you need +10 to the skill which cost [80] bringing the total to [114] to give any weapon you wield the ability to ignore DR.

Sounds expensive, until you remember that this works for any weapon you use, including that sniper rifle that does 9d+1 pi and that ATGM, 115mm which does 6dx10 cr ex.

regardless, the cost is just a starting point, and being able to do these things at no FP cost or skill roll should be costly.



Hope that helped clear things up more :)

[KBH]

Hi zoncxs,
thank you so much, this is exactly what I was looking for. :)

I added some other limitiations like Accesibility (Force Sword) -10% such that this ability works only on weapons specially attuned to the Immaterium and Nuisance (obvious), since Psykers and usage of their powers or equipment draws attention.

Since the ability works only in conjunction with a Force Sword, I wondered if I should add Can be Stolen and / or Breakable but I think this would be a bit too much since it requires rather "sophisticated" attackers which is not the majority of foes, a Space Marine encounters. :)

Summarized, I end up with 31.45 \approx 32 points which I deem acceptable.

Thank you so much and all the best
Klaus

[zoncxs]

You can't add Nuisance (obvious) because that is covered by Visible already.

Accessibility, Requires (Force Sword), -10% is good for limiting it to just force swords. Since this power can be used with any force sword, gadget limitation should be avoided. Unless the power comes from an actual gadget.

[KBH]

Hi,

Originally Posted by zoncxs

You can't add Nuisance (obvious) because that is covered by Visible already.

Well, I chose it, because the description of Nuisance (obvious) also states, that it attracts enemies, which is a consequence of the effect being visible and thus a bit more than simply visible.
The point is, that wielding Psychic Powers might unsettle some people around you in the WH40k universe or even make you a priority target ("Kill the mage first!"). So, someone seeing you wielding that Force Sword might put him/her at unease, i.e., penalty on the reaction roll, or making him/her attacking you at high priority target ... at the end, I would say an additional -5% is reasonable.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Accessibility, Requires (Force Sword), -10% is good for limiting it to just force swords. Since this power can be used with any force sword, gadget limitation should be avoided. Unless the power comes from an actual gadget.

So be it. :)

[KBH]

Hi zoncxs,

Happy New Year and sorry for the long silence.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

(1) Imbue (one skill only) [8] + Penetrating Strike (VH) DX+0 [8] + Unusual Training Perk [1]

I ask myself why you consider DX+0 [8].
Moreover, the Power Gamer in me asks why I should not simply take DX-3 [1] into account, since (2) will add Cosmic, No die roll required, i.e., the actual skill level is irrelevant - no?

Originally Posted by zoncxs

In the above example you could not take a -2 to have a higher AD since you do not roll.

To be able to do such things you need to buy higher skill levels as advantages:

+1 to a skill is [4], applying that to step (2) raises the cost by [8]

Sorry, I cannot follow this reasoning. Where do you take the +1 to a skill is [4] from?

Thanks and best,
KBH

[zoncxs]

Ello! Its been a whole year, thought you were gone. (get it?)

The reasoning for DX+0 [8] is because many advantages require an attribute roll at the att+0 level.

From Sorcery pg 11.
"...Imbuement Skills are normally bought individually for each type of weapon, but here the skill is assumed to always be the correct specialty for whatever weapon it’s cast on. This is balanced by the fact that, despite “Cosmic, No die roll required” normally allowing you to take huge skill penalties and still succeed, here it is assumed that penalties must be bought off via excess levels of skill."


So with that in mind, to use higher levels of A.D. you need to buy higher levels of the skill, since we bought the skill up to DX+0 [8], that means each additional level will cost [4] each.

[KBH]

Hi,

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Ello! Its been a whole year, thought you were gone. (get it?)

Of course. Same like late after midnight at the gaming table
"Tomorrow, I will ..."
"Dude, we already have tomorrow."
"Tomorrow is after sleeping ... " ;)

Originally Posted by zoncxs

From Sorcery pg 11.

Ah, I just realized I already have bought Sorcery ... just checking that out as well as the reference of GURPS Pyramid #3/44 on page 11.

Thanks a lot! :)