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11-20-2019, 08:22 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Trying to understand self powered items
I was re-reading the rules on magic item creation and having trouble understanding the reasoning or system behind how self powered capabilities really work.
The general rule is clear(ish): cost in money, ST and wizards is at least 10x that of the standard version. What 'at least' means in this context isn't clear; the example a couple of pages before suggests it means you get 1 point of self powering. So what does it cost to get 2 or 3 or 4? Who knows. More generally, quite a few items are described as having no ST cost, presumably meaning their default version is self powered. I can't make any sense of why one item has this capability and another doesn't, and judging from the costs in the tables it seems like in these cases self-powering was very cheap compared to the general rule for self powering. Does anyone out there feel like they understand this? |
11-20-2019, 09:16 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
More items are "self powered" than is apparent in the listings, say Summon X gems. This makes them more cost effective than scrolls.
https://www.hcobb.com/tft/scrolls_suck.html
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11-20-2019, 09:20 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
Yeah, I think I understand it, except for the edge cases that are not explicitly defined, or defined differently in the RAW versus the original Advanced Wizard errata. See this thread for house ruling discussion about details of enchantment use for multi-hex figures and the errata.
It sounds like mainly you're not noticing the mention on ITL p.154 where it gives further examples: Quote:
The issue of some items not requiring any ST cost to maintain is I think a case of the designer originally trying to make the right choice between having items that are very useful because you can keep them on without draining your ST, versus wanting the game not to be dominated and overpowered by easy access to items that have powerful effects that don't have any drawback. In my view, several of them marked as no cost should definitely have a cost of at least 1/turn, such as Stone/Iron flesh. In any case, the logic I think at work there is the idea that some spells aren't so powerful that the base version requires ST from the user to run all the time. But I'd say GMs may want to review that for each item to see whether they agree or not. |
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11-20-2019, 10:28 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
IMHO a lot of magic items would be better balanced at 1 ST per X minutes. Like say a Flight ring which is rarely useful at 1 ST per turn and a game changer at 0 ST required.
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11-20-2019, 10:36 AM | #5 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
I think many of the enchantments are GM calls, and may take experience to learn what the implications are. I have players who could make extremely good use of a Flight enchantment at 1 ST per turn. 1 ST per minute is a whole other category of ability.
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11-20-2019, 10:42 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
The whole thing is kind of a mess. Given the goals of these sorts of resource-management rules, it would be a lot better if there were just some formula relating IQ level and ST cost of spells to the ST cost of enchantment, and then a single rubric that always applies if you want to bump it up to self-powered status. It should be possible to figure out what sub-conscious algorithm was in the back of Steve's mind when he filled out the tables by just seeing what the central tendencies are. I'm not really worried about financial costs because I don't use them, but the costs in wizards and ST per day are a serious gate-keeper for players making new enchantments, so I'd like it to work in a sensible fashion.
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11-20-2019, 11:21 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
When I have time I'll run the numbers on alternatives to magic items. For example a wizard who could either spend 500 XP to learn a spell or buy a $5000 magic item that has the same ST cost.
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11-20-2019, 01:32 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Trying to understand self powered items
Quote:
The immediate example that comes to mind is Stone Flesh at $4000 with no ST cost - that stacks with armor / shields/ toughness and can let anyone who can fight with a few more points of armor stacked on, dominate combat against all foes without very high-damage weapons. And as hcobb has pointed out several times, it's not well-balanced in terms of effort versus the less convenient Armor Enchantment costs. |
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