All the howitzers

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

I completely agree. The idea that an Ogre MB has a 1:2 against a conventional armor unit is bizarre, to say the least.

In the words of Mr. Horse "No sir, I don't like it"

With you on this. The D4 SHVY made sense as a tank squad leader, a specialist behind a screen, at 2 AU.

In all (but one) rules question about the SHVY it got more and more sweetener. It goes over ridges, under water, it got AP guns, the AP guns are doubled in overruns because somehow they're ogre weapons... And then there's the D5 defense. Why use a missile tank on a green map?

I volunteered to help edit something a while back. We were tight on space. I suggested that we drop the SHVY because a significant bulk of the ruleset is extra sentences of exceptions and "me too"s for the SHVY. (I don't think I got a reply for that one, but they let me keep editing...)

[Tim Kauffman]

"OGRE MARK 1
The first and smallest of the Ogres, dating from 2060...The first cybernetic tank, the Mark 1, was a direct line development of the Combine's advanced battle tanks...the Mark 1 was intended as a battle-line unit, but proved not to be cost-effective in that role. Although hard to kill, it was too easy - relative to the huge cost of the cybernetic brain - to put it out of action. However, the Mark 1 remained in regular production as long as the Combine lasted, simply because it was the only Ogre small enough to be transported by conventional means. It proved to be effective as a light raider unit in terrain where human troops did not perform well, such as remote jungles and tundra. Perhaps a larger Ogre would have been even better...but often they couldn't get there."
OGRE MINIATURES page 9

"2060
Ogre Mark 1 enters production."
OGRE MINIATURES page 50

"The first Superheavies were designed by the Paneuropeans, and intended to match - more cheaply the Ogre Mark 1. In fact, the human-controlled units weren't the equal of the cybertanks in performance, but they were enough cheaper that they proved viable. In 2083 the Combine put it's own (very similar) superheavy design into production."
OGRE MINIATURES page 14

Thus, Combine produced the first Ogre Mark 1 in 2060. Paneurope, in response to this, produced the first Superheavy Tank. In 2083, some 23 years later, Combine produced it's own Superheavy.

The Superheavy / OGRE Mark 1 can be seen as representing best attempts at optimizing a weapon system concept which yielded a developmental dichotomy gone wild. Both had their strengths and weaknesses, thus, both were used. Logistics dictates here that only Superheavies and Mark 1s were the most viable because they were the most easily transportable. That was a huge factor concerning Combine, which explains why they later, after producing OGRE Mark 1s, then produced "retro-OGREs"...the Superheavy. They were more cost effective and arguably as good as a Mark 1. Then, the Descartes Revolution occurred, and many Mark 1s were
retro-fitted with the Descartes Package, furthering the argument if Superheavy or Mark 1 was a more cost-effective and viable unit.
The D4 to D5 and other Superheavy rules over the years just makes them all the more believable...there surely would have been variants as both sides developers struggled how to best optimize the weapon platform. Embrace the fruits of the Combine and Paneuropean design calamity! You can run whatever "unfair/unbalanced" versions you like. I think it's awesome how this worked out.

I think the grey area of if a Superheavy is too powerful or under powered when compared to an OGRE Mark 1 as has been officially written, and the various rules "anomalies" over the years only makes the situation that much more believable, and enjoyable. It's one of the main reasons I like OGRE so much is the background fluff...the OGRE Timeline is a two page work of game design genius.

http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/lastwar/timeline.html

https://youtu.be/rk7V-swYXRI