Threshold magery and Very High Mana

[kirbwarrior]

I don't think there's much of an issue with just using the default rule (fully recovers next turn). We're talking about an already extremely rare situation (rare enough that it's effectively the gm saying 'your spells are free right now').

However, the probably best slight change is to do that, but allow a max of however much the mage recovers daily (default 8, right?). It keeps them in close check to normal mages while still giving them the correct feel. And lets normal mages be better when they bought higher reserves of FP and ER.

[Zoomfarg]

Originally Posted by wmervine4

As others have already stated, allowing threshold-limited magic to work like spell-based magic where the caster recovers his tally immediately at the start of his next turn makes magic supremely powerful. The only limit to how much energy a mage can tap in such a scenario is limited by his maximum safe threshold, and even then, he can exceed that threshold at the risk of triggering a calamity check. If the mage recovers his tally completely on his next turn though, in my opinion, it really nerfs the whole point of threshold-limited magic to begin with. Specifically, the concept is that you can only draw on your magic so much before you strain your connection to your power source and risk a calamity. It hardly causes any strain at all if you can wait 1 second and dump 30+ energy (the recommended default threshold) into a spell.

Nice explanation, thank you. The 30+ energy per second was originally what threw me off also.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

However, the probably best slight change is to do that, but allow a max of however much the mage recovers daily (default 8, right?). It keeps them in close check to normal mages while still giving them the correct feel. And lets normal mages be better when they bought higher reserves of FP and ER.

This seems sensible to me, too. It just seems wrong to have NO benefit to Very High Mana (especially since my group's new setting will only use threshold), but recovering 30 threshold is just excessive. Plus, since the average person could spend 9 FP on a spell without risking passing out, a recovery of 8 per second isn't too different. Though the threshold casters still have the benefit of not suffering from lost FP.

[Nereidalbel]

I'd give full recovery after every spell, but, all critical failures roll for Calamity, in addition to the spell's backfire.

[David Johnston2]

Here's one approach. Increase the size of the threshold, but don't decrease tally at all.

[dfinlay]

Here's the issue with removing tally instantly: Players can use this on spells cast outside the zone (unless you just ruke that they can't, which seems clunky). The casters can build up a tally over time and then just come in to the zone, shed it all and head back out again. That seems very problematic and if you say it only works for tally from spells cast in the zone, it seems both clunky and metaphysically odd.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

This seems sensible to me, too. It just seems wrong to have NO benefit to Very High Mana.

Why? Serious question really.

I think a lot of problems with mana levels are attributable to the bad choice of names. Low, High and Very High are not really *quantitatively* different from Normal, they're *qualitatively* different. They change the rules. If they were called White, Blue, Purple and Gold mana instead, and listed in alphabetical order along with Aspected and Wild, nobody would think of them as "levels". Threshold Magic even says it uses a new type (Unlimited).

The analog rule for mana levels appears to be places with Variable Threshold. Which could actually be pretty interesting. If Very High Mana analog is something like Infinite Threshold, you cast anything you want while there, but your recovery rate doesn't change, so if run your tally way above the Threshold in the surrounding region you can get yourself into a situation where you can't step out of the Infinite Threshold zone this century without evaporating, which actually does seem to suit many fictional wonderworkers who appear to have incredible powers but never leave home and need to have adventurers do stuff for them.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The analog rule for mana levels appears to be places with Variable Threshold. Which could actually be pretty interesting. If Very High Mana analog is something like Infinite Threshold, you cast anything you want while there, but your recovery rate doesn't change, so if run your tally way above the Threshold in the surrounding region you can get yourself into a situation where you can't step out of the Infinite Threshold zone this century without evaporating, which actually does seem to suit many fictional wonderworkers who appear to have incredible powers but never leave home and need to have adventurers do stuff for them.

I like this idea. I'm not saying its how I want to run VH mana all the time, but the idea of a raised threshold area that a super powerful NPC inhabits just feels right and cool and a fun challenge for the players. If their own wizard tries to go toe to toe with the guy he ends up stuck in the spot. So they have to be clever.