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Old 03-25-2011, 11:09 AM   #51
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by Dragondog View Post
And thus the stacked levels of Cosmic. To resist Influence skills with Empathy, you must have one more level of Cosmic Indomitable than the other person has Cosmic Empathy.
Which book is cosmic stacking in? That isn't how tiers work in Powers.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:30 AM   #52
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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And somehow you're still missing the point. You still haven't plugged the hole, you just made it smaller, again.
It's turtles all the way down, I'm afraid.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:34 AM   #53
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
And somehow you're still missing the point. You still haven't plugged the hole, you just made it smaller, again.
Do you want it to be possible to resist all influence skills? Or do you want there to be a level of Empathy so powerful no one can resist it? This is a gameworld design decision. If you want the former, disallow Empathy (Cosmic). If you want the latter, allow it.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:35 AM   #54
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
It's turtles all the way down, I'm afraid.
How so? The tier system doesn't work that way:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powers page 32
Two tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2 (everything else!), +0%.

Three tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +25%; Tier 3 (least), +0%.

Four tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +30%; Tier 3, +15%; Tier 4 (least), +0%.

Five tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +35%; Tier 3, +25%; Tier 4, +10%; Tier 5 (least), +0%.

Six tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +40%; Tier 3, +30%; Tier 4, +20%; Tier 5, +10%; Tier 6 (least), +0%.
+50% always gets you the top tier.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:37 AM   #55
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Which book is cosmic stacking in? That isn't how tiers work in Powers.
Actually it's pretty close except for the name change - consider each tier as a level of Cosmic instead of a subset of it. Note though that Cosmic as a power modifier is actually quite different from Cosmic as an enhancement - the later is effectively "GM defined rule exemption" - which I think makes it a rather foolish name choice and a bad decision to make the power modifer pay for part of a Cosmic enhancement, but YMMV. Technically I suppose Powers doesn't address what happens when two advantages with conflicting Cosmic enhancements interact.

Which is sort of my point. If you have a rule set in which you can define an ability as resists all attacks of type X and another as type X attack that ignores all resistance you have the *classic* form of the irresistable force vs. immovable object problem. Setting up your rule set to generate that is something you should try to avoid. I won't claim GURPS manages it, but it does try, so no, you aren't going to easily close that "hole" because it's not a "hole", it's an intentional design choice to avoid this logic paradox.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:52 AM   #56
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Actually it's pretty close except for the name change - consider each tier as a level of Cosmic instead of a subset of it.
No, it doesn't, as described in powers there is always an ultimate final level, which always costs +50%. I've posted the quote up thread.


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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Technically I suppose Powers doesn't address what happens when two advantages with conflicting Cosmic enhancements interact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powers page 21
The basic +50% for a cosmic power enables the power’s abilities to work normally against attacks and opposing abilities enhanced with more expensive Cosmic options.
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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Which is sort of my point.
You point is powers doesn't address what it addresses on page 21?

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
so no, you aren't going to easily close that "hole" because it's not a "hole", it's an intentional design choice to avoid this logic paradox.
But the "hole" has nothing to do with the logical paradox you are describing. I have no idea how you reached this conclusion.
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:28 PM   #57
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
No, it doesn't, as described in powers there is always an ultimate final level, which always costs +50%. I've posted the quote up thread.
Don't focus on the cost (which is after all *not* fixed for the enhancment) and it does.

Quote:
You point is powers doesn't address what it addresses on page 21?
Um, no, my point is further along. But note that this text on p21 applies to the Cosmic *power* not the Cosmic *enhancement*. I really do think it's dumb to use the same name.

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But the "hole" has nothing to do with the logical paradox you are describing. I have no idea how you reached this conclusion.
Could you tell my what you think the "hole" is then? It sure looks to me like you are disturbed by not being able to build a form of Immunity that cannot be overcome.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:44 PM   #58
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Don't focus on the cost (which is after all *not* fixed for the enhancment) and it does.
The cost for the highest level is fixed, I posted up thread. Here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powers page 32
Two tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2 (everything else!), +0%.

Three tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +25%; Tier 3 (least), +0%.

Four tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +30%; Tier 3, +15%; Tier 4 (least), +0%.

Five tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +35%; Tier 3, +25%; Tier 4, +10%; Tier 5 (least), +0%.

Six tiers: Tier 1 (Cosmic), +50%; Tier 2, +40%; Tier 3, +30%; Tier 4, +20%; Tier 5, +10%; Tier 6 (least), +0%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
But note that this text on p21 applies to the Cosmic *power* not the Cosmic *enhancement*.
They are identical:
Quote:
This is identical to the +50% level of the Cosmic enhancement on p. B103.
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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Could you tell my what you think the "hole" is then?
I'll try agian

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
It sure looks to me like you are disturbed by not being able to build a form of Immunity that cannot be overcome.
I am disturbed by not being able to build a form of Immunity that cannot be overcome by someone with empathy.

Normal joe vs. Social skill guy
Social skills get a resistance roll off.

Indomitable joe vs. Social skill guy
Social skill do not work.

Indomitable joe vs. Cosmic +300% (Higest tier) Social skill guy
Social skills get a resistance roll off.

Cosmic +50% (Higest tier) Indomitable joe vs. Cosmic +300% (Higest tier) Social skill guy
Social skill do not work. Irresistable force loses to immovable object.

This the highest tier, there's nothing higher. Immovable object Wins. We have someone who is immune to social skills!

Unless empathy is thrown in, then we get:

Indomitable joe vs. Empathy Social skill guy
Social skills get a resistance roll off.

Cosmic +50% (Higest tier)
Indomitable joe vs.Empathy Social skill guy
Social skill do not work.


Cosmic +50% (Higest tier) Indomitable joe vs. Cosmic +300% (Higest tier) Empathy Social skill guy
Social skills get a resistance roll off.

So, you can build someone who is utterly invulnerable to social skills, unless the attacker has Cosmic Empathy, in which case they aren't. Why? What if the rule for DR was burning damage always ignores DR, if you want DR that resists burning damage buy cosmic DR, and if someone with Cosmic Burning damage targets you, you're screwed, because burning damage (Read empathy) is just special. Why is it special?
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:48 PM   #59
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Indomitable joe vs. Cosmic +300% (Higest tier) Social skill guy
Social skills get a resistance roll off.

Cosmic +50% (Higest tier) Indomitable joe vs. Cosmic +300% (Higest tier) Social skill guy
Social skill do not work. Irresistable force loses to immovable object.
But no one has Cosmic social skills anyway. There are no Cosmic skills, and in fact no modifiers to skill costs.

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Old 03-25-2011, 01:56 PM   #60
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Default Re: Resistance to Sex Appeal

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
But no one has Cosmic social skills anyway.
If you're basing that on there not being any modifiers to skill costs keep reading...

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
There are no Cosmic skills, and in fact no modifiers to skill costs.
Reread the section on enhancements page 102:
Quote:
The GM might even permit specific enhancements on certain skills, but this is difficult to justify unless the skill functions much as an advantage (which is sometimes true of racially innate skills possessed by nonhumans).
It requires GM permission, but then again most things with cosmic seem like the sort of things GMs would require permission for.
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