Psionics in 4th Ed: I'm not getting it...

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by B9anders

With apologies to the reverend, I would nevertheless argue that if this is a case of 'I'm confused about psionics' moreso than 'I want 3rd edition psionics' then, as much as I like Psionic Powers, I would have to recommend Powers as the first book to get.

Dunno if Rev was assuming that the OP already went through Powers or not. I note that he does include a recommendation for Powers in the Introduction. If someone finds the crunch from Powers more confusing in their quest to understand psionics (and there is a lot of material superfluous to that goal in the book), then Psionic Powers can be of help, because its approach is streamlined.

[mmeloche]

So, how far does the talent bonus go? E.g., I have TK Talent 2 -- does that give me a bonus to using a normal skill with my TK Grab? (It makes sense to me that it would, but it also has a taste of "too good to be true")

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by mmeloche

So, how far does the talent bonus go? E.g., I have TK Talent 2 -- does that give me a bonus to using a normal skill with my TK Grab? (It makes sense to me that it would, but it also has a taste of "too good to be true")

The answer to your question is on page 158 of Powers. Sort of. GM judgement calls are a necessity.

[PK]

Originally Posted by mmeloche

So, how far does the talent bonus go? E.g., I have TK Talent 2 -- does that give me a bonus to using a normal skill with my TK Grab? (It makes sense to me that it would, but it also has a taste of "too good to be true")

David's answer is right regarding general rules for powers. So if you're using the rules in the Basic Set, or building your own in GURPS Powers, the GM has to make a few judgment calls. If you happen to be using the premade system in GURPS Psionic Powers, it's far more cut-and-dry:

The assumption in Psionic Powers (which, remember, is a worked example of a power, and thus is willing to make specific assumptions -- as opposed to Powers, which has to be generic and universal) is that psionic Talent always adds to your skill. So the bonus is specifically to TK Grab skill, not to any others.

However, this isn't really a drawback, because note that you're allowed to use your TK Grab skill for anything involving TK Grab! If you want, you may substitute an IQ-based version of a more appropriate skill, but you do not then add the bonus from Talent.

EXAMPLE: John has DX 13, IQ 12, Psychokinesis Talent 3, and TK Grab at level 10. Including his Talent, he buys TK Grab (H) IQ+3 [4]-15. He also happens to know Broadsword (A) DX+4 [16]-17. John wants to pick up a sword and swing it at someone. He rolls against TK Grab to pick it up (a 15). When swinging it, he'd rather use his Broadsword skill. This is an IQ-based roll, and it does not get the bonus from Psychokinesis Talent, so he's rolling against IQ+4 or 16 to hit.

John isn't disadvantaged in any way, because if his Broadsword skill sucked or was nonexistent, he could use his TK Grab skill (with the Talent bonus) to attack someone!

(And again: Note that this all applies to the specific build in Psionic Powers. It's one example of a way that a GM might take the generic rules from Powers and turn them into something specific and simple.)

[mmeloche]

WOW.

I had been misreading Psionic Powers all this time, apparently. It would be tempting, knowing this, to just dump points into TK Grab.

[PK]

That's the idea! One of my goals when writing Psionic Powers was to focus heavily on the skills, making them as useful as possible. That's more true for some abilities than others, but in the case of TK Grab, it's the subtle use of Based on IQ (as explained on p. 17) that helps justify it.

So yeah, if your GM wouldn't blink at TK Grab 25 and the skill TK Grab-15, he shouldn't blink at TK Grab 15 and the skill TK Grab-25. They're both valid options, and give you a choice between power and control.

[Lancillotto]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I just used the 3e book. It was just simpler and didn't require the same level of general system mastery.

Did you need any conversion work? Maybe with 3ed point costs?

[wackyned]

moved to new thread

[kdtipa]

Link to the new thread?

[wackyned]

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=87685

but it's for my healing gun thread