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Old 12-29-2009, 08:47 AM   #51
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Both Buddhist monks and Christian priests have in fact taken the field of battle in reality even without objective physical demons out there to fight.
We know that, but the issue is complex. The point is both "religions" aren't complete from an structural point of view and, when they are implied into physical battles, they fall into contradictions and/or paradoxes. The emphasis of both is on compassion, love and forgiveness.

(Anyway I don't want to enter more deeply here, because that can carry us too far, and that was the reason for putting that phrase about chivalric orders.)

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Originally Posted by tantric View Post
You're talking out your ass. Why do you assume that I don't have empowered means? Because I don't agree with you? Your tone is patronizing and superior.
You're taking the doctrine as my own thoughts. A spiritual doctrine is superior to individual opinions, not myself. So you remain wrong about me. I assume you don't have any means by tons of reasons, and BTW that's the case of most people claiming themselves to be Buddhists so really it isn't a personal thing with you.

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Why? That sentence doesn't parse on a grammatical level. Do you mean "so as to avoid denaturalizing things so that the imagination flies with more freedom"?
Exact! It was a typo. Instead "flees" I want to mean "flies". Corrected, it reads in this way (I will edit the post):

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonsbane
My personal stance here is to make fictional religions and worlds for Dungeon Fantasy, so you avoid to denaturalize things and imagination flies with more freedom.
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Originally Posted by tantric View Post
Normally, I cut people a LOT of slack when I assume that English isn't their native language (twice you used 'stablished' instead of 'established', which, linguistically speaking, is very odd),
Odd but perfectly understandable. Anyway I do my best trying to write English, and I often apologize for grammar errors. I don't care specially about you cutting people because their English isn't perfect. Do you realize you're in an internationally open forum?

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Nevertheless, you seem to regard yourself as some kind of Buddhist - I notice that you didn't say whether or not you are Nichiren. And, according to Rev. Hahn, whom I parrot without understanding:
The earlier mention of the parampara implies the thing is independent of "your" Nichiren. But you don't understand that, or you're feigning it for trying to use Nichiren for discrediting my exposition, again. Also, I'm not "some kind of Buddhist", so your lessons, again quoted out of context, aren't applicable. You remain wrong in your assumptions.

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I shall discontinue this odd and useless debate in public and suggest that you PM me for further reconciliation. Nam Myo ho Renge Kyo, dude.
I suggest you to use another language, maybe without the ugly words and without the injurious comments. At least that would be more in line with Buddhism.

You aren't a Buddhist, man. Buddhism, in the way you understand it, is only a toy for your mind. As your enthusiasm for transhumanism (BTW, both things aren't compatible), and many other things. Have fun.

BTW, I'm not angered with you, tantric, but you are. PM yourself if you want.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:03 AM   #52
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

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But what is cooler? Using real world religious names and then fitting them to DF or to make something else up to sort of be like them? I think that names have a sort of power and interest to them. I mean would you rather have a cleric of Zeus or Zorse? Plus there are many names used in DF now, so should it be changed?

Medusa = Snake headed woman whose gaze turns you to stone?
Chimera = Mix of lion goat and serpent?

I think names are sort of interesting, demon lords and devil in AD&D had names like Orcus, Demogorgon, Asmodeus, Beelezbub, Geryon, ect. I think these names added something and I think that having a DF monk of Buddhism who uses his enlightenment to kick butt and take treasure is fine with me.
Well, I stated my personal preference about this, and I partially agree with you. Of course this is different than to discussing about the Buddhist doctrine because now it is, instead, more about personal preferences. In brief I will try to reply better to your post.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:16 AM   #53
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

Why would Buddhism be incompatible with Transhumanism? Awakening could be considered a type of transhumanism, since the meaning of transhumanism is very wide.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:47 AM   #54
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

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Why would Buddhism be incompatible with Transhumanism? Awakening could be considered a type of transhumanism, since the meaning of transhumanism is very wide.
Buddhism is transhumanist, as any high spiritual doctrine (note I'm not saying "religions"). The incompatibility lies in the transhumanation process -the spiritual practice- results in "something" wich isn't related to the corporeal world in any way (and contemporary Transhumanism is materialistic). You can see Dante' Divine Comedy for hints about that. (Dante, like others, was a kind of occidental "yogi", despite the long efforts to turn him into a genius poet and writer and nothing more). Transhumanation results in the identification with the metaphysical principle ("Holy Trinity", "God", in the theological and religious language of Christianity -I'm speaking about this in a non-strict way, because metaphysics go beyond the "God" notion, which is "the top" and "the cap" of religions and theologies).

Contemporary Transhumanism and Posthumanism, instead, preaches about transmuting the human condition, achieving physical immortality through technological means, which implies the immortality of the ego even if it's "living" in a hardware piece floating in the space, or as some kind of energy (energy is phenomenological and thus directly related to the corporeal and temporal order).

Buddhism and metaphysical doctrines/paths destroy the ego, instead keeping it alive forever. Because that, it's utterly incompatible with contemporary (or futuristic) Transhumanism. Opposed goals.

This kind of spiritual transhumanism, consists in leaving behind the human condition for realizing the identification with the "supreme principle", although there are no words for "it" because it's non-duality (advaita). In Buddhism, a reference to such thing is Paranirvana. Once this "state" is reached (the Awakening, Enlightenment or Release), the body remains working until the karmic residue is exhausted, and then dies; the "state", however, is eternal and independent of the body.

Certainly this can be explained better, but I'm a bit tired and short of time.
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:51 AM   #55
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

Oops, I posted in General Chatter before reading demonbane's rebuff. I'm not sure it matters. Am I the only one who has difficulty parsing his posts? I'm trying, but wow, it's one thing not to be fluent in English, that I can work with, but unintelligible is universal. Entonces, si quieres, podemes continuar ese discusion en espanol, pero mi keyboard no se funcionar en la moda internacional.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:29 PM   #56
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

demonsbane: Awww, don't run away. I've never actually spoken to someone who believes as you do. I find it fascinating. I'm dead serious about wanting to talk to you. I'm the guy who gets excited when Mormons knock on his door. A few of those conversations have been really interesting (the Mormons who actually know their theology enough to compare it to others).

In case you didn't notice, I had a rather public falling out with Transhumanism, and I actually agree with you in your stance - the materialistic nature of transhumanism and its goal of immortality via technology are fundamentally incompatible with Buddhism - though that's not related to my personal disenchantment with TH.

Last edited by tantric; 12-29-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:13 AM   #57
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

Maybe we should look at this from a different perspective. Starting with the DF background which is a PC who kills things and takes their stuff and then creating a Buddhist rationale for doing so. So in this case the Buddhist monk/cleric would use his/her state of enlightenment to be able to use supernatural powers to kill things and take their stuff. All of the religious fluff would be added to create a more interesting PC. I like the idea of having the Buddhist be able to turn demons into flowers because this has flair to it. Maybe this would be a power that would be resisted by HT? And maybe the Buddhist could use his enlightenment to create a barrior around him protecting him from hostile attacks. Who knows but a DF character like this would be interesting to me.

EDIT: I would like to add that being here in Thailand and seing all of the wats here just screams DF coolness. The temples are just so cool and there are all sorts of guardian animals like serpents and nagas and also so much intricate design in the statues and altars. Plus seing all of the monks walking around it gives me the idea of having a bad*ss Buddhist monk wearing only his orange robe and then using his enlightenment to kick some butt.

Last edited by b-dog; 12-30-2009 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:46 AM   #58
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

Well, as a code of ethics, let's start with this: the Sohei has the One True Dharma. He is Trained by a Master, and anyone who isn't part of his lineage of Masters is preaching heresy. It is perfectly okay to attack other religions, because they lack the One True Dharma, and are thus propagating lies. It's like tough love - if you have true compassion for a person, you will do whatever it takes to get him to see the True Path, even if that means smacking him around a bit.

Their supernatural powers are 100% based on Trained by a Master - they are handed down directly from teacher to student. Other people who have magic or powers practice tricks without understanding - only those of the Sohei's lineage, who have been personally confirmed, can use these powers correctly, and, because of their lineage, they inherently cannot use those powers incorrectly. When the Sohei walks into a lair of kobolds and kills them and takes their stuff, it's all good because he has a divine mandate - he cannot do wrong. Many will criticize him for his actions, but that is meaningless, for they do not have Pure Understanding.

The Sohei is utterly devoted to his temple and his ultimate Master. His first and foremost goal is the ending of other misbeliefs. He, himself, is pious and devoted to Right Action, and the fact that he can express supernatural powers is the only justification needed - he literally cannot do wrong. This does not imply a life of gluttony and greed - in fact, he is almost ascetic in his devotions.

Okay, working on it, more later
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:56 AM   #59
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Default Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior

Okay. As many reported posts as this thread has generated is too many. Closed.

Tantric and Demonsbane This is an Official warning, cool the heat down or you'll be taking a vacation from these boards.
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