04-13-2006, 11:46 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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So the only difference between shooting a bow while making an acrobatic dodge and shooting a bow while standing still is +1? Are you assuming aim bonuses and bracing that aren't mentioned? Or is there some other penalty to ranged attacks used with active defenses that I don't recall. In general, the +1 for AoA Determined at range is a bad bargin unless you know for certain the enemy can't attack you. The bonus to hit is grossly outweighed by the loss of even an 8- dodge. Admittedly, not dodging allows other things to come into play (aim, bracing, etc), but giving up your dodge is not a small thing. I find Luther's suggestion to unify AoA Determined for ranged and melee combat compelling in real world terms, and easier in play, since it reduces the number of rules needed. |
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04-13-2006, 11:48 AM | #42 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: How to make an archer ...
Aside from the bad effects which the higher AoA bonus would have on TL5+ gun combat, Luther, perhaps one could argue that an AoA is almost the default for ranged attacks? Most people don't try to dodge while shooting. In that case the different bonus would be explained by the common principle in GURPS that one unit of good stuff costs more points than one point of bad stuff gives. eg. skill penalties, limitations on traits, many advantages with parallel good and bad versions.
I also agree with what others have said: there are simply more ways to modify a melee attack at the cost of defence than there are a ranged attack.
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04-13-2006, 11:58 AM | #43 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: How to make an archer ...
Several options in the upcoming Martial Arts will make archers more useful in one-on-one situations. Most are campaign options -- optional combat rules -- and not things that will cost archers additional points. Please hang in there . . .
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
04-13-2006, 12:00 PM | #44 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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AOA with a melee weapon isn't just concentrated aiming. It is swinging your weapon haphazardly, "Dropping your guard", and opening yourself up to your oponent. You are swinging determinedly, and ignoring any blows coming back at you. With a Missile weapon, you have to stand still to fire in the first place. You don't have that much mobility to give up, in the first plaace. There's not much more you can do, besides take more time to Aim. I am an archer as well. I also do archery in Amtgard (a Live-Action, fantasy combat group. Kinda like the SCA but with padded weapons). You have no control over a missile, once you fire (unless you'te telekinetic). You can "guide" a sword into the opponet's gut. You can't with an arrow. Once you release it, it's gone. I honestly think a +1 is about all the benefit you're going to get, without taking time to aim. Melee combat has more control over the striking part of the weapon, and thus gets a better bonus for AOA, but gets less return from Evaluate. Missile combat is exactly the opposite. It has the luxury of getting the weapon's Acc bonuses for Aiming, but gets less return from AOA, due to loss of control after firing. |
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04-13-2006, 12:08 PM | #45 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Czech Rep. Pilsen
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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You have skill 14, Strenght 12. Your Bow have Acc3 and doing 1d+1 imp. Your Foe have move 5. Starting 50yards apart. Archer 1: FD Arow, Ready Bow. Foe 1: Move 5. Archer 2: Aim. Foe 2: Move 6. Archer 3: Fire AOA:Determined. Skill 14+3+1, range 39 = -8, Efective skill 10. Foe 3: Move 6. Archer 4: FD Arow, Ready Bow. Foe 4: Move 6. Archer 5: Aim. Foe 5: Move 6. Archer 6: Fire AOA:Determined. Skill 14+3+1, range 21 = -6, Efective skill 12. Foe 6: Move 6. Archer 7: FD Arow, Ready Bow. Foe 7: Move 6. Archer 8: Aim. Foe 8: Move 6. Archer 9: Fire Attack. Skill 14+3, range 3 = -1, Efective skill 16. Foe 9: AOA. With 1d+1 imp damage, even one succesfull hit will do enough damage to cause 1/2move 1/2dodge. This will further increase time Archer have. When Archer manage two hits (or have little luck and roll 5 or 6 on damage of first hit) he will put ordinary Foe under 0. This is not so bad. I would not call Archer without chances.
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04-13-2006, 12:10 PM | #46 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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Assuming, for a minute, that the AoA Dert. +4 is in use, how should you handle it where the loss of dodge isn't actually changing much? eg, when the attacker is prone already? For melee attacks, there is a penalty for being prone, which AoA Drt can compensate for, but I recall prone giving a bonus (no to bows, the orignal subject of the thread, though). Hmm. I suspect "Ranged AoA Determined +1 or +4" might deserve its own thread, perhaps generalized to "Unifying ranged and melee combat rules" |
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04-13-2006, 12:40 PM | #47 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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I need MA RIGHT NOW ;) |
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04-13-2006, 01:20 PM | #48 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: How to make an archer ...
Note that skill 14 and 1d+1 damage is pretty lame for a fantasy warrior. I routinely see skill-18 warriors with damages in the 2d range in pure fantasy, where fighters mainly worry about fightin'. I'd expect something more like this:
His damage is thr+3 with a composite bow, for a basic 1d+2, but he adds +2 for Weapon Master and +1 for fine arrows, for 1d+5. These are bodkins, so damage is 1d+5(2) pi. He doesn't care about piercing vs. impaling, because he aims for the vitals and both damage types get x3 there. He'd shoot at skill 18, +3 Acc, +1 for Weapon Bond, or a base 22 on aimed shots. Aiming for the vitals (-3), he'd have good odds out to 70 yards. If he hits plate armor (DR 6), it'll be treated as DR 3 for the bodkin. His damage roll will be from 6 to 11. After DR, that will be from 3 to 8. Tripled to the vitals gives from 9 to 24. A low-damage hit will be a major wound to the vitals, and likely drop the target. A high-damage hit is likely lethal to a HT 10-11 man. Average damage means incapacity. That's what I'd consider a "first level" fantasy archer. A better archer would have up to seven more levels of skill so that he could aim at chinks in armor over the vitals (-10) or at the eyes (-10); he'd have ST 13 to 15 for more damage; he'd have Combat Reflexes to aid Fast-Draw and defenses; he's have Basic Move 9 or so for maneuvering; he'd learn Zen Archery; and he'd have far better signature gear, probably a fine, magical bow and magical arrows.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
04-13-2006, 01:38 PM | #49 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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Whow, powerfull dude. If that is your first level archer, what the heck is a master? |
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04-13-2006, 01:47 PM | #50 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Münster, Germany
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Re: How to make an archer ...
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