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Old 02-14-2012, 03:52 PM   #21
sir_pudding
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I think that the above is in the context of "when dealing with styles." But I could be wrong. In a separate forum, though, the point that was made was "not all warriors train in STYLES." That, true enough, doesn't speak to whether or not you can get the perk.
Yeah, but Kromm seems to be saying that means they need 60 points in combat skills and techniques to get those three perks, a non-stylist is worse off here. Unless I'm still not getting it.

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That being said:

* I have ZERO issues with allowing the Strongbow perk and 10 points of Arm ST for those whose background is "spent years training in archery."
Neither do I, but I'm pretty sure that's not directly supported by RAW (unless the character studied a style that gives the perks limit-free, as some do). OTOH, if the Foot Archery style isn't intended for English longbowmen, then I'm not sure what it's for. They are the archetypical stylists at least during the historical period in which training was mandated.

ISTR that Foot Archery had a number of Optional skills that were perfectly sensible for a Yeoman farmer to take anyway, which I think makes this largely a non-issue. Unless you think that an essentially elite infantry class should be 25 point characters or something.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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This post in particular seems to indicate that you can not get style perks without either 10 points in a style or 20 points in combat skills in general.
There is at least one style (I forget which one) that recommends overlooking or at least relaxing these restrictions in the case of a key perk that this style requires in order to exist as a style at all. I think the recommendation was to allow the perk to be purchased as soon as the style was completely purchased (style perk, 1 point in each required skill).

Which is not the same as saying those restrictions don't exist and aren't the default case - and of course the GM is always free to waive various recommended restrictions or prerequisites any time he wants to. The books do try their best to make sure the GM is aware of the consequences, and at least in the case of that perk and style (i still can't remember which ones) they seem to have been considered acceptable enough to make it a semi-official exception.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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That would require at least thirty points in the appropriate skills and techniques, right?
You get 1 perk per 25 points, according to Power-Ups 2. So a 150 point character gets 6. You get more combat perks if you have a style, package, etc.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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There is at least one style (I forget which one) that recommends overlooking or at least relaxing these restrictions in the case of a key perk that this style requires in order to exist as a style at all. I think the recommendation was to allow the perk to be purchased as soon as the style was completely purchased (style perk, 1 point in each required skill).
Capoeira: "Because acrobatic moves are so fundamental to the style, practitioners may learn the Acrobatic Kicks perk as soon as they have a point in Acrobatics (instead of the usual 10 points in skills and techniques)."
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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Yeah, but Kromm seems to be saying that means they need 60 points in combat skills and techniques to get those three perks, a non-stylist is worse off here. Unless I'm still not getting it.
A few posts previous to that one, he says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Perk limits are mandatory for styles – magical or martial – to give styles added value, but merely a suggestion to the GM otherwise. . . .
Magic Perks and Style Perks tend to be a lot more potent than general perks, so their limits are more important.
I think we're both in the "yeah, basically right" territory. If you're pulling a lot of perks that are usually associated with particular styles into a game, a point limit is a good idea, bordering on "if you don't do this, beware." But for this particular case, where one can argue that the same way you get +2 to damage (the equivalent of +4 ST!) for knowing Karate really well (DX+2) and learning the "right" way to throw a punch, you get a +2 bonus to ST at DX+2 for knowing and training the exact right way to draw a heavy bow. Watching videos of people drawing such bows, I can see it's at least not UNrealistic!

For Arm ST, I'd not look at that in the same category as acrobatic kicking or even Technique Mastery (Breakfall) . . . anyone with a set of weights or bands can get this, and I'd not look at it the same way as perks more tied to a specific methodology of training.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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You get 1 perk per 25 points, according to Power-Ups 2. So a 150 point character gets 6. You get more combat perks if you have a style, package, etc.
You can't use the general perks for Style Perks.

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
A few posts previous to that one, he says:
By which he seems to be saying that without styles the limit is one Style Perk per 20 points of combat skills, which Power Ups 2 supports. If you are playing with perk limits at all, it seems that not having a style doesn't free you from having the normal Style Perk limit.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:11 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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You can't use the general perks for Style Perks.


By which he seems to be saying that without styles the limit is one Style Perk per 20 points of combat skills, which Power Ups 2 supports. If you are playing with perk limits at all, it seems that not having a style doesn't free you from having the normal Style Perk limit.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I see his statement as "perk limits based on points, as above, are to give styles extra value and encourage people to take them from a game-mechanical sense." The "one perk per 25 total character points" is again a suggested balance point, to avoid "Mr Perk" as a character type.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:25 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Deadly Spring question

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You can't use the general perks for Style Perks.
Basic Set does not limit Perks. If you aren't using styles, packages, etc., a limit of 1 per 25, as suggested in PU2, is fine but even more restrictive than Basic. That's one way to limit Perk abuse, by flat out capping them.

Another way to deal with it is by allowing you to get more perks, but only if you have invested heavily in the field, as PU2 recommends in the combat perks section. The commando in Monster Hunters, for instance, get 1 gun perk per 6 points in Gun!. There are no other limits on perks in MH. In addition, as Tactical Shooting mentions, if your whole professional template counts as a style, you could get 1 perk per ten points. The SEALS, at 240 points for the base template alone, would be happy to know that taking 24 gun perks is fully game legal.

So, a 30 point template package for a foot archer could give 3 combat perks. A 75-point Archer in a game which did not use styles could still have 3 perks available, at the recommended 1 per 25. And a 150 point Heroic Archer template could have 15 perks. A game running with Basic Set's advice would have no limit. All of these are "legal" ways to deal with perks. It really depends on how the GM structures the game.
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