[Technical Solutions] Complete Guide to Tanking in GURPS

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

5-10 attacks is "roll until you score Critical Hit territory". Any melee fighter ought to be able to down an opponent on that time scale or he's a "squishie" himself. You'd only last 10 rounds against my Flail specialist by having a Level Boss's Dodge score. That's the whole pont of nuking the opponent's Parry.

The traditional reason for lasting so long is not a Bossy Dodge Score, it is Bossy DR and HP Score, with maybe some level Unkillable or Supernatural Durability thrown in. The reason why Dodge Bosses seem to be unpopular in dungeon crawls (IME, at least) is that they are so unpredictable - they can last for hundreds of turns or be down after the first hit, depending on a roll or two. Hulks with average weapon skills and DX, OTOH, seem like a staple.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The traditional reason for lasting so long is not a Bossy Dodge Score, it is Bossy DR and HP Score, with maybe some level Unkillable or Supernatural Durability thrown in.

You're talking tactics for fighting monsters with 150pt Advantages and considering that in basic Tank design? A monster that tough is probably thinking about killing everyone and probably not even doing the easy ones first.

Not a "normal" threat IMHO.

[swampthing]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

From what I've heard, the AoO rules in D&D3 were terribly difficult to learn and arbitrate

It's admittedly a bit of an aside, but the only AoO rule from D&D3 that's relevant to the topic at hand is basically "if you exit a square that's threatened by a melee weapon, its wielder gets to thwack you one." It's not rocket science.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I'm afraid you and Anthony do not understand the principle of "The Best Defense is a Good Offence".

I understand it just fine, but we're specifically discussing the 'tank' role -- which, in single and small group combat, is largely an artificial construct of MMOs. You can dispute whether it even makes sense to have tanks, but if you have tanks, they are what I described.

Realistically, the closest thing to a 'tank' role is infantry in mass combat -- units that are good at holding ground but unimpressive offensively. Notably, tanks do not fill the 'tank' role (they fill the striker role -- mobile, high offense, poor at holding ground).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Killing one of your enemies (or even just making him fail a Consciousness roll) is better than Parrying his attacks, Sweeping him, Disarming him, Slamming him, Hooking him or several other diversionary tactics _all rolled into one_..

At this point I wonder, do you think that all the stuff added by GURPS Martial Arts is actually unneeded?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

At this point I wonder, do you think that all the stuff added by GURPS Martial Arts is actually unneeded?

No. Some of it helps even people fighting for their lives. IMHO, Targeted Attacks are core and not optional as just one example.

Of course, some of it just helps you screw around and much of the rest is aimed at sub-lethal combat, specifically the grappling material.

[Trachmyr]

I have to back up Fred Brackin here, by far the best Tank any of my player's has had in any DF or TL3 game has been a Shield and Flail guy... With the One Hand Disadvantage and a Stump Knife (Shield was specially designed so that the stump knife used the Bladed Shields rules from LTC2).

By the time he got his ST+Striking ST up to 17, being a weapon master he was dishing out 3d+8, jumping to 3d+11 for AoA or Mighty Blow, and 3d+14 for Focused Fury. Techniques were Counterattack and Whirlwind Attack.

Also of note was Weapn Master (Flail & Shield), Enhanced Block, high Shield Skill, Feint (Shield), Technique Mastery (Flail Counterattack), Technique Mastery (Shield Feint), Shield Wall Training, Shoves and Tackles (Shield), extra Fatigue, and Liberal use of the Focused Defense option from MA:Gladiators. For backup he had his Weapon Bond/Signature Gear Stump Knife using the Main-Gauche Skill.

His Typical Setup was a Shield Feint followed by Deceptive Attack, or a Counterattack. He blew through FP on extra Effort quite quickly, but would down foes mercilessly.

We did use the Multiple Blocks per turn rules from MA, so that helped him quite a bit... if not normally allowed, I'd deffinately see if I could get the Extra Option perk for it.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You're talking tactics for fighting monsters with 150pt Advantages and considering that in basic Tank design? A monster that tough is probably thinking about killing everyone and probably not even doing the easy ones first.

Not a "normal" threat IMHO.

I'm not sure how HP and DR and possibly Injury Tolerance or Supernatural durability makes something able to "killing everyone and probably not even doing the easy ones first". Those are all defensive advantages and don't imply tankbusting powers on their own.

Moreover, the context was "boss monster" - that's not a "normal" threat! You shouldn't have a dungeon full of them at all. We're talking things like dragons (With or without dragon-worshiping cultists), the lich running the dungeon full of varied undead and Renfields, and so forth.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Trachmyr

I have to back up Fred Brackin here, by far the best Tank any of my player's has had in any DF or TL3 game has been a Shield and Flail guy... With the One Hand Disadvantage and a Stump Knife (Shield was specially designed so that the stump knife used the Bladed Shields rules from LTC2).

By the time he got his ST+Striking ST up to 17, being a weapon master he was dishing out 3d+8, jumping to 3d+11 for AoA or Mighty Blow, and 3d+14 for Focused Fury. Techniques were Counterattack and Whirlwind Attack.

Also of note was Weapn Master (Flail & Shield), Enhanced Block, high Shield Skill, Feint (Shield), Technique Mastery (Flail Counterattack), Technique Mastery (Shield Feint), Shield Wall Training, Shoves and Tackles (Shield), extra Fatigue, and Liberal use of the Focused Defense option from MA:Gladiators. For backup he had his Weapon Bond/Signature Gear Stump Knife using the Main-Gauche Skill.

His Typical Setup was a Shield Feint followed by Deceptive Attack, or a Counterattack. He blew through FP on extra Effort quite quickly, but would down foes mercilessly.

We did use the Multiple Blocks per turn rules from MA, so that helped him quite a bit... if not normally allowed, I'd deffinately see if I could get the Extra Option perk for it.

If playing with the Dungeon Fantasy rules, make the flail Dwarven. Then it becomes the god weapon, and you can take Sacrificial Parry. If playing a high ST race, get a two handed flail that you can use one handed, and you've got reach two. Invest in Return Strike too, since thanks to your reach 2, you can use with foes at reach 1.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

If playing with the Dungeon Fantasy rules, make the flail Dwarven. Then it becomes the god weapon, and you can take Sacrificial Parry. If playing a high ST race, get a two handed flail that you can use one handed, and you've got reach two. Invest in Return Strike too, since thanks to your reach 2, you can use with foes at reach 1.

Aww, Dwarven anyweapon is godly. I'd give a lot in any low-tech setting that involves combats to some extent to have access to the Dwarven quality. Flail, kusari, whip, you name it.