How should I build a torus within a torus space station?

Flyndaran · 12-09-2012, 02:53 PM

I'm thinking of a regular expensive station inside or at least connected to a larger cheaper station built mainly for food production and spin gravity exercise.

Should I build them separate and just hand wave a connection through one core section each?

What say the crowd?

jeff_wilson · 12-09-2012, 05:05 PM

Yes, absolutely.

edit: You really aren't giving enough information to go on, like what purpose this will serve, or what constitutes a "regular" space station.

Flyndaran · 12-09-2012, 05:51 PM

One with more factories and expensive machinery, rather than just living space and food production.

Just wondering if what I wanted was violating SS rules and there was a reason why I shouldn't.

Fred Brackin · 12-09-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

One with more factories and expensive machinery, rather than just living space and food production.

Just wondering if what I wanted was violating SS rules and there was a reason why I shouldn't.

Any part with spin gravity is likely to be the _outer_ torus. Any aprt without spin gravity is nt likely to eb in torus shape int eh first place.

Generally though if you're not breaking the rules in Spaceships about spin gravity you're fine. Spaceships handwaves literal locations. The various Enterprise clones don't specify which location is actually the primary saucer, which is the secondary hull and what's part of the the nacelles.

Flyndaran · 12-09-2012, 06:43 PM

Okay, cool. I haven't been sleeping much, so my brain isn't up to the normal mediocre level. thanks.

Flyndaran · 12-10-2012, 04:00 AM

I crashed, but feel more coherent.

I was thinking specifically of a design to accommodate two main gravity preferences without requiring more than one station.

The most populous group prefers around 0.9 gravity, and the other lives on a 1.7 gravity world.

To keep costs down, the inner spin torus can be SM +12 for 0.5 G, the outer cheaper version mainly for open space farming and gravity exercise SM +13 for 0.7 G, but I would also like maybe two smaller ships connected by elevators spinning way out for a much higher gravity nearer 1.7 G.

It would be easier to make them all separate stations, but that would be a wasteful hassle taking shuttles back and forth on a daily basis.

Would there be a way to keep them spinning all at the same rate, or would that be impossible? I forget how rotations per second equate to gravity.

Okay, I checked, and see that I can have what I want. But it would mean that only the inner torus would have zero gravity core sections.
Anyone see a problem with saying the other station sections' core sections are really non-core sections? Probably not.

Thanks again.

SCAR · 12-10-2012, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURPS Spaceships.p30

Spin Gravity
Larger unstreamlined spacecraft may be designed so part or all of the ship can spin to simulate interior gravity via the Coriolis effect.

Since a Spacecraft designed to provide Spin Gravity can spin part of itself to provide gravity, it seems reasonable to allow 2 different parts of the spacecraft (or in this case Space Station) to rotate independently to create different levels of gravity in each section.

Build an SM+13 spacecraft with Spin Gravity support (max 0.7G), and designate the Front section as the equivalent of an 'Upper Stage', SM+12, rotation at 0.5G, and have the rest of the SM+13 station (except the Core systems) rotating at 0.7G.

Flyndaran · 12-10-2012, 04:35 AM

Awesome; I didn't know, or forgot, that sentence.
I keep forgetting that the exact shape isn't necessarily rules important.
That would keep my notes more organized with one fewer sheet.
Thank you.

jeff_wilson · 12-10-2012, 05:48 AM

You can have synchronized spin with .5 and .7 g sections as long as their radii (radiuses) are in the same proportion. SM+13 for things with two or three largest dimensions is 150 yards, so the inner torus would need to be about 150*(.5/.7)=107 yards across, pretty close to SM+12 like you guessed.

Rotational gravity is radius times rotation rate (in radians per second) squared, so to get 7.7 yards/sec/sec on a 75-yard radius station, it needs to rotate once per 19.6 seconds.

Flyndaran · 12-10-2012, 06:16 AM

I can't take full credit as 0.5 is the maximum for SM +12 like 0.7 is for SM +13, so I thought they should mesh well.

But either way, thanks to everyone for helping me realize that I didn't need to file things off to get my idea to fit the rules.

12-09-2012, 02:53 PM	#1
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	How should I build a torus within a torus space station? I'm thinking of a regular expensive station inside or at least connected to a larger cheaper station built mainly for food production and spin gravity exercise. Should I build them separate and just hand wave a connection through one core section each? What say the crowd? __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

12-09-2012, 05:05 PM	#2
jeff_wilson Computer Scientist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? Yes, absolutely. edit: You really aren't giving enough information to go on, like what purpose this will serve, or what constitutes a "regular" space station. __________________ . Reposed playtest leader. The Campaigns of William Stoddard Last edited by jeff_wilson; 12-09-2012 at 05:09 PM.

12-09-2012, 05:51 PM	#3
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? One with more factories and expensive machinery, rather than just living space and food production. Just wondering if what I wanted was violating SS rules and there was a reason why I shouldn't. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

12-09-2012, 06:43 PM	#5
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? Okay, cool. I haven't been sleeping much, so my brain isn't up to the normal mediocre level. thanks. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

12-10-2012, 04:00 AM	#6
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? I crashed, but feel more coherent. I was thinking specifically of a design to accommodate two main gravity preferences without requiring more than one station. The most populous group prefers around 0.9 gravity, and the other lives on a 1.7 gravity world. To keep costs down, the inner spin torus can be SM +12 for 0.5 G, the outer cheaper version mainly for open space farming and gravity exercise SM +13 for 0.7 G, but I would also like maybe two smaller ships connected by elevators spinning way out for a much higher gravity nearer 1.7 G. It would be easier to make them all separate stations, but that would be a wasteful hassle taking shuttles back and forth on a daily basis. Would there be a way to keep them spinning all at the same rate, or would that be impossible? I forget how rotations per second equate to gravity. Okay, I checked, and see that I can have what I want. But it would mean that only the inner torus would have zero gravity core sections. Anyone see a problem with saying the other station sections' core sections are really non-core sections? Probably not. Thanks again. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check. Last edited by Flyndaran; 12-10-2012 at 04:26 AM.

12-10-2012, 04:35 AM	#8
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? Awesome; I didn't know, or forgot, that sentence. I keep forgetting that the exact shape isn't necessarily rules important. That would keep my notes more organized with one fewer sheet. Thank you. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

12-10-2012, 05:48 AM	#9
jeff_wilson Computer Scientist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? You can have synchronized spin with .5 and .7 g sections as long as their radii (radiuses) are in the same proportion. SM+13 for things with two or three largest dimensions is 150 yards, so the inner torus would need to be about 150*(.5/.7)=107 yards across, pretty close to SM+12 like you guessed. Rotational gravity is radius times rotation rate (in radians per second) squared, so to get 7.7 yards/sec/sec on a 75-yard radius station, it needs to rotate once per 19.6 seconds. __________________ . Reposed playtest leader. The Campaigns of William Stoddard

12-10-2012, 06:16 AM	#10
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: How should I build a torus within a torus space station? I can't take full credit as 0.5 is the maximum for SM +12 like 0.7 is for SM +13, so I thought they should mesh well. But either way, thanks to everyone for helping me realize that I didn't need to file things off to get my idea to fit the rules. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.