alternate form and emergency only

[Devil_Dante]

Hi again ^_^

Need help with "alternate form" and limitations:
1) i know that enhancements and limitations can only add to the 15 points of "alternate form" itself.
So, i have created a power that can be activated only in stresfull situations (it gives some physical buffs and a innate attack, for a total of 88 points).
I add "emergency only" limitation to alternate form, so it now costs 10 points.

The question is: can i add "emergency only" to the "alternate form"?

i probabily already know the answer, but i wish to know if it s legit by RAW.

That's because we have 320 point and this "power" is worth 88 points alone.

2) alternate form expires when i want. I add "reduce time": 30 seconds. Is it legit?

Thanks for replies

[AlexanderHowl]

Emergencies Only is a specific variation of the Uncontrollable limitation. In the case of Alternate Form, however, you need enough Reduced Time to decrease the time to 0 to make it meaningful (Reduced Time 5 would reduce it from 10 seconds to 0 seconds). If the template provided by the Alternate Form is too expensive, I would suggest reducing its IQ and/or add mental attributes, so that it would be less expensive (I would suggest giving in -4 IQ, Berserk (12), and Impulsiveness (12), in order to reduce the cost of the template to 0 points). In any case, the Alternate Form would usually expire when the emergency that triggered it was over, though adding Minimum Time might be good.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Emergencies Only is a specific variation of the Uncontrollable limitation.

This is not the case. Emergencies Only means what it says - you can only use the ability in an emergency. However, when you can use it, it's under your full control. You could combine Emergencies Only and Uncontrollable if you wanted an ability that would only trigger when you were stressed and wasn't under your control.

To the original poster's question, yes, you can put Emergencies Only on your Alternate Form. You're right, by default it will only reduce the cost of the 15 points for the Alternate Form, not the additional 88 points for the abilities granted by it. However, have you considered just taking the various abilities on their own, and just putting Emergencies Only on all of them? If the aim of this build is just to get some buffs in an emergency, and doesn't actually represent a significantly different form, and particularly if there aren't any disadvantages bundled into it, I'd say it's probably best to just take the abilities on their own, and limit them appropriately. It will save you points, since a) you can skip having to pay 15 extra points (or more, because if you want them available right away, you'll have to buy Reduced Time), and b) you can actually apply limitations like Emergencies Only directly to the cost of the abilities.

[lvalero]

I like the AlexanderHowl way. Think in the meaning of the alternate form only appearing when there is an emergency. Is he a "spirit guardian"? Is he a "subsconscious warrior"?

Maybe you can give him "Berserker", "Callous" and/or "Odious Personal Habit: Kill whoever threatens the original PC". Add him Fanatical or Paranoid if it fits with the concept.

Maybe if you can elaborate more the "alternate form" of the PC we can help more :)

[Devil_Dante]

Originally Posted by lvalero

I like the AlexanderHowl way. Think in the meaning of the alternate form only appearing when there is an emergency. Is he a "spirit guardian"? Is he a "subsconscious warrior"?

Maybe you can give him "Berserker", "Callous" and/or "Odious Personal Habit: Kill whoever threatens the original PC". Add him Fanatical or Paranoid if it fits with the concept.

Maybe if you can elaborate more the "alternate form" of the PC we can help more :)

I'm answering this first to elaborate better: My PC is the son of Ephestos, the greek god of methallurgy. We'r playing in the mythical Greek. I was thinking about a "minor pshycal" transformation when the things go wrong. Image something like "wake up your blood-line power" when you are in danger (emergency only). This is a buff: Striking ST 5, DX+1, fatigue point +3 and HP+5. There are some other tweaks, but are only aesthetic, so, pure glamour. On top of this, two times per transformation, i could use an "innate attack": pillar of flame.
I wish to make this transformation lenghts only 30 seconds, no more, and it means i applied "maximum duration 30 seconds, -75%" to altered form (obviously to the 15 points).
I'm going to add some disadvantages to reduce the cost. It s a good call! Thank you

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Emergencies Only is a specific variation of the Uncontrollable limitation. In the case of Alternate Form, however, you need enough Reduced Time to decrease the time to 0 to make it meaningful (Reduced Time 5 would reduce it from 10 seconds to 0 seconds). If the template provided by the Alternate Form is too expensive, I would suggest reducing its IQ and/or add mental attributes, so that it would be less expensive (I would suggest giving in -4 IQ, Berserk (12), and Impulsiveness (12), in order to reduce the cost of the template to 0 points). In any case, the Alternate Form would usually expire when the emergency that triggered it was over, though adding Minimum Time might be good.

I have red my initial post, i made a mistake when i wrote the second point: i wanted to mean "maximum duration", not reducing time. My purpose is to make my alternate form only lenght for 30 seconds.
Reading what you wrote now, created me a doubt: there is no quote anywhere that the power expires when the condition ends ehen i aply "emergency only". So i interpreted the limitation as: it activates when stressfull stuff appear but lenght as per normal "alternate form" (aka, as will). So, using "maximum duration" from Powers sounded right.
About the disadvantages, as said above, i'm going to add something. Thanks for call!

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

This is not the case. Emergencies Only means what it says - you can only use the ability in an emergency. However, when you can use it, it's under your full control. You could combine Emergencies Only and Uncontrollable if you wanted an ability that would only trigger when you were stressed and wasn't under your control.

To the original poster's question, yes, you can put Emergencies Only on your Alternate Form. You're right, by default it will only reduce the cost of the 15 points for the Alternate Form, not the additional 88 points for the abilities granted by it. However, have you considered just taking the various abilities on their own, and just putting Emergencies Only on all of them? If the aim of this build is just to get some buffs in an emergency, and doesn't actually represent a significantly different form, and particularly if there aren't any disadvantages bundled into it, I'd say it's probably best to just take the abilities on their own, and limit them appropriately. It will save you points, since a) you can skip having to pay 15 extra points (or more, because if you want them available right away, you'll have to buy Reduced Time), and b) you can actually apply limitations like Emergencies Only directly to the cost of the abilities.

As said above, my power doesn t only grant physical buffs, but an "innate attack" too, so i decided for "alternated form". On top of this, i haven't found any way to enhance the attributes in other way. Maybe is way simpler than i made, but i like the idea to use a shapeshifting abilities, even because there are some glamour things that happen!

Thanks mates!!

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Devil_Dante

As said above, my power doesn t only grant physical buffs, but an "innate attack" too, so i decided for "alternated form".

It does sound like this is reasonable as an Alternate Form, particularly if you're going with the suggestion to add some disads to the template. However, Emergencies Only is a perfectly valid limitation to use on an Innate Attack. There's nothing in Emergencies Only that limits its use on attack advantages - there's lots of circumstances where you might want to use an Innate Attack that wouldn't qualify as an emergency, so it's still a meaningful limitation.

Originally Posted by Devil_Dante

On top of this, i haven't found any way to enhance the attributes in other way.

To do that, just apply the limitation value you want only to the point costs of the levels of the attributes you want limited. So, for example, you want your buff to add +3 FP. To modify that, you'd figure the price of 3 FP (9 points), and apply the Emergencies Only limitation just to those points, which would come out to 6 points.

Originally Posted by Devil_Dante

My purpose is to make my alternate form only lenght for 30 seconds.
Reading what you wrote now, created me a doubt: there is no quote anywhere that the power expires when the condition ends ehen i aply "emergency only". So i interpreted the limitation as: it activates when stressfull stuff appear but lenght as per normal "alternate form" (aka, as will). So, using "maximum duration" from Powers sounded right.

You're definitely right here - Emergencies Only only controls when you can activate your ability, not when it ends. So Maximum Duration is a good limitation to put on this. I might suggest using the value of "no more than a minute", and just saying that it's actually "Maximum Duration, however long the emergency lasts" instead. Sometimes that will be longer than a minute, but I suspect most times it will be less, and often less than 30 seconds, so it probably balances out. And that way, you don't have to worry about the ability shutting down in the middle of a crisis, even though it's supposed to be triggered by danger.

[Devil_Dante]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I might suggest using the value of "no more than a minute", and just saying that it's actually "Maximum Duration, however long the emergency lasts"

Wow.. that's awesome!! Have not thought about it!! I'm working on final form!!
i 'll post asap

edit: that's what i did
Inner strenght: Shapeshift, alternate form [15] (Ephestos’ rage [17]; Emergency only, -30%; Maximum duration les than a minute, -65%; Nuisence effect -5%; Reduce time ¼, +40%; TOTALE= -60%) [15 X 0.4+17= 23]
• Ephestos’ Rage: Striking ST +4 [5/lvl], DX +1 [20/lvl]; Fatigue points +3 [3/lvl]; HT+5 [2/lvl]; IQ -2 [-20/lvl]; Callous [-5]; Disturbing voice [-10]; Vulnerability, ice (x2 damage) [-10]; berserker [-10]; Bad smell [-10]; Innate attack 4, burning [5/lvl] (Area of effect 4, +100%; Incendiary, +10%; Overhead, +30%; Persistent, +40%; Reduce duration, 3 secs, -10%; Costs fatigue 3, -15%; Limited uses 2 per day, -30%; Takes recharge 5 sec, -10%, TOTALE = +115%) [43]
• TOTALE Alternate form= 20+20+9+10-40-5-10-10-10-10+43 = [102-85] = [17]