Dungeon Fantasy Archer v. Martial Artist-tips?

[rerednaw]

Okay unlike this thread:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=parry+arrow

I have the opposite problem.

With the default NPC archer (Emily Elms) http://www.sjgames.com/dungeonfantas..._emilyelms.pdf

The party is made up of melees. The lowest Parry Missile is 17- (1 point). That got me wondering...what if an archer ran into bad guys like these? Emily is skilled with a backup weapon...but against a melee-primary? She'd get clobbered. Even 1 v 1 I don't see how'd she would win. Is this a rock-paper-scissors scenario or does she have other options?

For a dungeon delve where encounter ranges are a bit shorter...what's the archer to do?

Thanks!

[Anthony]

Remember, parry missile weapon is skill/2 + 3, like any other active defense, so that 17- translates to a parry of 11-. In any case, the basic secret to staying out of melee is to either kill them first, keep natural barriers between you and them, or keep teammates or other unnatural barriers between you and them.

[Dingle]

You may notice that in both cases, the group with more characters is favoured.

Does Parry Missile work against a critical success with the Bow skill?

I think range, surprise, and hoping for critical success and failure are the archer's best options against opponents with good defenses.

In the short range case, I believe plans A and B should be running away and finding a load of friends for backup.

[tanksoldier]

If I understand what's being asked, the solution is to not get yourself into that situation.

By definition, specialist characters aren't generalist characters. A specialized bowman isn't supposed to take out a knight melee specialist in HtH, any more that a wizard would.

It's the same thing I often hear about military equipment: Well, an M113 can't stand up to a T-72 so it's worthless. No, not everything is supposed to be an MBT and the M113 isn't supposed to be off on it's own anyway... and if it does stumble on an MBT it's supposed to run or hide.... or die. Military forces are about combined arms for a reason.

Adventuring groups, especially dungeon delving adventuring groups are the same way. There's a reason that "fighter, mage, cleric, thief" is a cliche... and a reason that overly specialized or overly generalized characters take up the 5th and 6th slots. You HAVE to have a meat shield, you HAVE to have healing, you HAVE to have magic and you HAVE to have recon. A specialist archer can't be the meatshield or do any of those other things... so they come 5th to the party.

Emily's writeup states that she uses distance in place of armor... and probably stealth, too. Not too hard to be sneaky 150 yards from your target. When alone facing a group she fires one arrow and runs away. Then sneaks up and does it again.

In a dungeon she wouldn't be alone and she'd use the melee members as her protection instead of distance.

[mlangsdorf]

Out of the box, a DFRPG Scout has Per 14, Observation-14, Stealth-13, Traps-12 versus the Thief's Per-14, optional Observation-13, Stealth-18, Traps-13. As recon specialists, they're roughly equal - the thief is a little less likely to be spotted by the opposition, while the scout can handle the situation a little better if he is spotted.

But you can get by without recon. It's a lot harder to get by without ranged support, and a Scout is so much better at ranged support than a Thief, Cleric, or Wizard that it isn't even funny. 1d+3 im or cu at skill-18 every round (which is a minimum, you can do a lot better) for no FP is better than 1d bu at skill-14 every other round.

I argue that a decently built scout brings recon and ranged support to the table, and even a well made thief is struggling to not be a liability in combat. Thus, the basic DF party is knight/swashbuckler/barbarian, cleric, scout, and wizard. Thief is one of the options for the 5th party member.

Emily Elms strategies shouldn't be just running, hiding, or hiding behind the meat shield. She should be using her accuracy at range 10-15 yards and the ability to shoot on the move to get on her enemies' flank and shoot them in the vitals. If she drops the canteen, rations, and short sword, her Move goes up to 7 and she becomes a lot more effective with the shoot and run tactic.

[tanksoldier]

Emily Elms strategies shouldn't be just running, hiding, or hiding behind the meat shield. She should be using her accuracy at range 10-15 yards and the ability to shoot on the move to get on her enemies' flank and shoot them in the vitals. If she drops the canteen, rations, and short sword, her Move goes up to 7 and she becomes a lot more effective with the shoot and run tactic.

...but she isn't doing that by herself against another 4-6 character adventuring party, she's doing it as part of a team. Keep in mind the other side probably knows the same tactics and strategies, so they have a counter to this.

[AlexanderHowl]

The real problem is when she faces a party with a wizard skilled in Reflect Missiles or Return Missile. Is she capable of withstanding her own attack without a major problem? If not, you might want to think about being very careful about ranged attacks against comparable groups.

[mlangsdorf]

She has 6 meteoric iron arrows that can't be deflected by magic. She also has the Observation skill, so she should be able to figure out which guy in the other group is the wizard.

Speaking from experience as the GM, one of the funniest bits in a DF game is when the wizard says "I'll cast Deflect Missile" and you get to point out that it's a meteoric iron arrow that ignores their Blocking spell, their Shield spell DB bonus, and the Fortify bonus on their armor.