Question about Infinite Worlds and Quantum level

[Michael Thayne]

From a Doylist POV, it's important to note that Q3 isn't just higher-magic but dangerous. Yrth is quite fantastic but being a quantum sargasso means Infinity doesn't have to worry too much about it being in their back yard. Contrast that with Reich-5, Merlin-1, I.S.T., and even Shikaku-Mon (which doesn't even have mana but is a candidate for independently discovering parachronics). As noted on IW54, the presence of these worlds mean it would be quite bad if centrum succeeded in their plot to shift Homeline to Q3.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

From a Doylist POV, it's important to note that Q3 isn't just higher-magic but dangerous. Yrth is quite fantastic but being a quantum sargasso means Infinity doesn't have to worry too much about it being in their back yard. Contrast that with Reich-5, Merlin-1, I.S.T., and even Shikaku-Mon (which doesn't even have mana but is a candidate for independently discovering parachronics). As noted on IW54, the presence of these worlds mean it would be quite bad if centrum succeeded in their plot to shift Homeline to Q3.

Yrth is another one of those things that shows the existence of a Homeline-2 as White Star was very active in the Classic Version of the reality - something that wouldn't be possible if the the reality was a sargasso.

[arcanus]

Originally Posted by maximara

The big problem is little to no magic doesn't mean little to no mana ie OZ particles). There are a lot of worlds where we just don't know the mana levels. Sherlock-2 case in point

Oh definitely, however that works with the theory there could be further normal to High mana but no magic worlds up and downstream, low to normal mana in magic parallels in Q6 or Q7 would be highly prized by Infinity.

A normal mana no magic Q6 world would be an excellent place for Sheldrake to establish a magic research facility in striking distance of Q7, particularly gate magics aiming for Q8.

It depends how magic adverse Centrum truly is, do they completely refute magic, investing no time in researching it, dismissing it socially and lack mana checking techniques for new World lines.

Or do they acknowledge it as a uncontrollable destructive alien power, have mana benchmarking techniques and an active anti-magic research program.
The latter might depend on how many encounters Centrum has had with the Cabal, they might simply Red Zone obviously magical worlds but if they've run into mage in theoretically safe worlds!

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

From a Doylist POV, it's important to note that Q3 isn't just higher-magic but dangerous. Yrth is quite fantastic but being a quantum sargasso means Infinity doesn't have to worry too much about it being in their back yard. Contrast that with Reich-5, Merlin-1, I.S.T., and even Shikaku-Mon (which doesn't even have mana but is a candidate for independently discovering parachronics). As noted on IW54, the presence of these worlds mean it would be quite bad if centrum succeeded in their plot to shift Homeline to Q3.

Q3 is the Weird Quanta hence the higher Oz particle concentration theory, thats why Infinity would use all its aces to counter Centrum and take the cold War to them on Q7. They've had long enough to understand Centrums strategy, Homeline can play defense for only so long securing echos and remaining viligent for shifts.

Homeline strategists would push for Infinity to disrupt Centrum plans by clandestine activities and even barely hidden activities on Q7 Worlds to divert Centrums resources - smokescreens, false flag operations, monkey-wrenching Q7 Yellow Zone operations, the KGB was just as active as the CIA.

Originally Posted by maximara

Yrth is another one of those things that shows the existence of a Homeline-2 as White Star was very active in the Classic Version of the reality - something that wouldn't be possible if the the reality was a sargasso.

That's an interesting point that H2 might present a route through or past the Sargasso.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by arcanus

O

That's an interesting point that H2 might present a route through or past the Sargasso.

It's probably to a different Yrth instead.

A prevously unknown (and to infinity inexplicable) term of the Tau Gamma equation would make the earlier Homeline and earlier Yrth be to the 3rd power instead of the 4th and never the two shall meet.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by arcanus

It depends how magic adverse Centrum truly is, do they completely refute magic, investing no time in researching it, dismissing it socially and lack mana checking techniques for new World lines.

Or do they acknowledge it as a uncontrollable destructive alien power, have mana benchmarking techniques and an active anti-magic research program.
The latter might depend on how many encounters Centrum has had with the Cabal, they might simply Red Zone obviously magical worlds but if they've run into mage in theoretically safe worlds!

I doubt that Centrum dismisses magic for the simple reason they know that physical laws are different in some realities. For example, something like Etheria should be impossible and that is not just in the physics being "off" but that Mars and Venus are able to support human life on their surfaces.

As for the "uncontrollable destructive alien power" that is likely out the windows as well as Azoth-4 , Azoth-5, and Milligan show this "magic" is controllable and, as leases from those reality's view, not "alien".

[ravenfish]

Centrum strike me as too pragmatic to dismiss completely something as potentially useful as (demonstrably effective) magic.

They might, however, be too stuck on their own wordviews to widely adapt it, the more so since there are so very many worlds where magic is completely useless (and even more where this or that version of it is completely useless), and so very few worlds where a pistol fails to work.

[AlexanderHowl]

What about magical systems that do not depend on mana? Corruption, Effect Shaping, Energy Accumulation, Sanctity, Spirit-Assisted, Threshold-Limited, etc. are all magical systems that do not necessarily use mana. For example, you could have timelines where every type of magic except Mana-Based exists.

[ravenfish]

My impression is that forms of magic that don't rely on mana as such nonetheless usually fail to work outside of a limited number of worlds, although I admit I can't source that rule offhand. If there are forms of magic that work more or less universally (multiversally?), then Infinity and Centrum are both crazy not to be making wider use of them (unless this characteristic is limited to some of the more entertaining ones like Spirit-assisted, of course).

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

What about magical systems that do not depend on mana? Corruption, Effect Shaping, Energy Accumulation, Sanctity, Spirit-Assisted, Threshold-Limited, etc. are all magical systems that do not necessarily use mana. For example, you could have timelines where every type of magic except Mana-Based exists.

Usually I use mana-level to handicap all types of magic. In my world, Sorcery is the only magical system I use (outside of psionics); I'm running a science-fantasy right now.

To me, mana-level is just shorthand for "How well does magic work here?" YMMV.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

What about magical systems that do not depend on mana? Corruption, Effect Shaping, Energy Accumulation, Sanctity, Spirit-Assisted, Threshold-Limited, etc. are all magical systems that do not necessarily use mana. For example, you could have timelines where every type of magic except Mana-Based exists.

Well as Roma Arcana shows mana doesn't always mean energy. In fact in that setting "mana consists of spirits" (f207) and is Effect Shaping,

Based on how Power Investiture is created (ie Magery (Functions as a Different Talent ±0%; Sanctity Replaces Mana: ±0%; No Zero-Level Requirement +10%; Inspired Learning +20%; No Spell Prerequisites +30%; Pact -10%; No Magic Item Sensitivity -20%; Limited spell list -30%)) it fallows Sanctity is nothing more then a highly aspected form of mana.

This idea is supported by the fact Isis grants her priests and followers Magery not Power Investiture (F207) and by Unified Metaphysical Theories (Powers p 181) which ties Mana, Sanctity, and psionics all together as possibly different accepts of the same thing.

The following is how such a concept could work:

All intelligent beings have some degree of internal power which is expressed in many ways one of the more obvious being Psionics. The actions a person does over his lifetime results in some of this internal power being left behind in the area; this left behind power is mana. The more people stay in an area and the longer they stay the higher the mana will be. Magery allows one to tap into this left behind "Psionic" power.

Many things can aspect this mana and in the case of places with high religious significance the mana aspects into a form so different that it is called sanctity which then "wakes" taking on the personality the worshipers expect. Because its very existence is dependent on belief it will "bless" people with the ability to channel its power (Power Investiture) In any case magic will still be fickle: the mage or cleric is tapping into power that is external rather than internal and therefor "alien".