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Old 10-08-2017, 05:10 PM   #81
GranitePenguin
 
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Units other than INF and GEVs using railroads...

2.03.2 states GEVs and INF treat railroads as roads, and the Reference Sheet says "No effect" for other units, but does that mean railroads do not help other units with terrain? I always interpreted this as "other units don't get the road bonus, but they are still not affected by the terrain."

Are other units still affected by terrain if they are following a railroad?
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Old 10-08-2017, 08:28 PM   #82
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
2.03.2 states GEVs and INF treat railroads as roads, and the Reference Sheet says "No effect" for other units, but does that mean railroads do not help other units with terrain? I always interpreted this as "other units don't get the road bonus, but they are still not affected by the terrain."

Are other units still affected by terrain if they are following a railroad?
"No effect" for other units if they are following a railroad, so they are still stuck in the terrain.

I remember GEVs on railroads coming up in the edits, and some rationalization for why GEVs and not tanks. I don't recall any discussion of sparing any units the terrain penalty without a bonus. (I argued against giving GEVs that bonus, so best not to go by just my memory.)

It would change Breakthrough.
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:30 PM   #83
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
"No effect" for other units if they are following a railroad, so they are still stuck in the terrain.

I remember GEVs on railroads coming up in the edits, and some rationalization for why GEVs and not tanks. I don't recall any discussion of sparing any units the terrain penalty without a bonus. (I argued against giving GEVs that bonus, so best not to go by just my memory.)

It would change Breakthrough.
Where it gets confusing is from 2.03.3:
Note that any unit can cross a railroad bridge.
If any unit can use a railroad bridge to negate terrain (stream or river, etc) then why can't it negate other terrain? I get why you wouldn't get a road bonus, but it's still effectively a clear space through the terrain.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:05 AM   #84
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
"No effect" for other units if they are following a railroad, so they are still stuck in the terrain.
Huh. I always read "no effect" as "terrain has no effect on unit" = "treat as clear."
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:40 AM   #85
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

I can see not getting a road bonus for following a railroad (railroads have been used as pathways for tanks forever, but it is slower going); but to say the terrain a railroad track passes through affects the units is just plain silly. In that case, how does the train itself traverse those hexes?
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Old 10-09-2017, 01:24 PM   #86
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Originally Posted by selenite View Post
Huh. I always read "no effect" as "terrain has no effect on unit" = "treat as clear."
That's always been my interpretation as well (although I never actually thought about it that way), which is the point of bringing it up.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:50 PM   #87
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Originally Posted by crfout View Post
Proposed - that GEV class vehicles, when disabled while on a water hex, are instead destroyed.

If the fans stop running, the hovercraft doesn't hover any more. It sinks.
I would say this...a Disabled GEV does not have the ability to attack while it is Disabled like other units because it is not as robust and is the only unit that hovers. The Disabled GEV loses it's movement ability and it's hover ability, thus, it would be floating in the water or sationary in other terrain unable to properly use it's weapons since they were designed for use while the GEV was hovering and able to move.

In this proposed case, the Disabled GEV cannot attack while Disabled.

Now Combine GEVs have a turret for their weapon, and Paneurope have a combination, with the main weapon on the nose of the unit, but I'm arguing when both units are Disabled this renders these weapons ineffective enough to be considered not able to fire while Disabled.

...otherwise a Disable means the vehicle itself is able to function normally, just the crew is not able to.

I do like the notion of having GEVs more vulnerable over water. This suggestion only makes sense if when Disabled the no attack rule applies no matter what terrain it is Disabled in. It's stated in the source material they are fragile, ect...this would allow that to be manifest in a cool little way in the game.

You could make this rule for early Last War GEVs, making a distinction between early and late Last War GEVs.
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Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 10-12-2017 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:46 PM   #88
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

"Disabled" doesn't denote damage to units. It shows that the crew is incapacitated. As seen in GURPS Ogre and other sources, every combat unit includes an AI that can undertake routine tasks, and even do a little fighting if need be. A "disabled" GEV is still hovering.
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:04 PM   #89
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Here's a collection of AP and terrain-related questions that have come up recently that need to be added as errata and/or FAQ

AUs being affected by spillover from APs (a bug in the Video Game)
Quote:
** 7.05.1 AP weapons. Some units have antipersonnel weapons, effective only against infantry (including special infantry types) and D0 units such as a regular (unarmored) CP. A unit may not fire AP at the same infantry unit more than once per turn, but any number of AP weapons may be used for that single attack.

Note: Any weapon may be used against infantry. AP weapons are useless against anything except infantry, targets with defense of 0, and other targets as designated in scenarios.

*** 7.12.2 Units affected by spillover fire. All units (friendly or enemy) in a hex are affected by spillover fire, except: (a) a unit’s own fire does not spill over onto it, and no spillover fire is calculated in an overrun; (b) separate spillover fire is not calculated for a tank and the infantry riding it (Section 5.11.2), and (c) Ogres and buildings ignore spillover fire.
Clarified by Steve:
Quote:
AP should not be able to hurt tanks, period. Not in direct combat, not in overruns, not with spillover.
----

Q: Spillover fire from automatic road destruction? - Specifically, should friendly units take spillover from a unit in the same hex that is performing automatic road destruction?

Clarification from Steve:
Quote:
No spillover.
----

Ramming INF with Ogres
Q. Does "ramming" INF count toward the "two rams per turn" limit?
A. No

Clarification from Steve:
Quote:
Intent: "Ramming" only means rams vs. armor units, not infantry. Only two rams per turn because the Ogre probably has to waste some time and movement getting close enough to the ram targets to actually hit them.

Reducing infantry is not a ram. It was treated as a ram in earlier versions of the video game but that was an error and has AFAIK been fixed. Reducing infantry just represents getting close enough to take a free shot with your AP, which is why AP is required for this to work.
---

Q. Can AP guns be used to auto-destroy terrain?
According to 7.05.1, AP guns can be used only against INF and D0 targets. Does that also mean they can't be used for auto-destruction of terrain?
A. Answer unknown
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Last edited by GranitePenguin; 10-14-2017 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:39 PM   #90
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
"Disabled" doesn't denote damage to units. It shows that the crew is incapacitated. As seen in GURPS Ogre and other sources, every combat unit includes an AI that can undertake routine tasks, and even do a little fighting if need be. A "disabled" GEV is still hovering.
If a unit takes a second D result...what happens to the unit? It gets Xed.

Is that second D result only affecting the crew again and this time it kills them, or is it damaging the vehicle only, or is it damaging the vehicle and the crew?

Quote from the rules:
"A disabled unit cannot fire or move; turn the counter over. If it receives another D result while disabled, it is destroyed."

...the unit is destroyed. It doesn't say the crew is killed and the vehicle is undamaged. It says the unit is destroyed. Which can only happen if the vehicle can also be damaged to the point of then being destroyed. Clearly there is some degree of vehicle damage occurring in a D result other than the crew gets knocked unconscious.
The video game has smoke coming off of D'ed units for example. That implies some degree of damage to the vehicle as well as the crew.

My suggestion was working within that framework to have a D'ed GEV lose it's ability to have its AI attack and also lose it's hovering ability while D'ed. The not hovering portion of the suggestion was really just semantics used to give a plausible explanation for it. Thus, one can ignore that explanation, but the suggestion to have a variant rule for GEVs that are D'ed not be able to use their AI to attack still stands.

If you want to use the variant rule, you can and it changes nothing from the original game because there are still GEVs that use the original rule, in this context the explanation is they would be early Last War GEVs...or even better, lesser skilled GEV Pilots. Then the official GEV Pilots, then the Aces that ignore all D results on them. ;)
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Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 10-14-2017 at 09:45 PM.
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