Reptile Men aren't necessarily going to be overlords

[mark hill]

oh the serpentmen! I forgot about them .. serpentwar saga you say .. must have a bit of a look for that

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by mark hill

lol .. well I was more thinkin of the fun value of em as baddies rather than their total empire building power compared to other species

While just being stronger is not enuf in itself, they wouldnt be worse at anything else, so its an edge :) Theres also speed of reproduction to consider .. they might only mate during a certain season (so maybe much slower than mammal species) but they might have 100 eggs at a time (so maybe much faster than mammal species) .. they might require very humid waterside environment, or be able to handle anything below the snowline .. 'whatever the desired plot demands can be rationalised afterwards' is my usual logic :)

they might be warm blooded if more dinosaur than lizard

Im guessing you agree they probably dont/cant eat plants?

They could be developed in a variety of ways, of course. I like that ITL leaves them sparsely detailed, because it leaves room for all sorts of different varieties.

Yes, they could be warm blooded, could be slow or fast breeders, and they could be conquerors. I wouldn't expect them to be vegetarians - it there are vegetarian varieties, they'd probably have dull teeth?

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by mark hill

I dont mind different species just being flat out unequal .. its not D+D after all, theres no Gods overlooking reality and ensuring fairness or anything .. however, I cant say this modern version is super-wrong either, you dont want all the players picking a single PC species because its suicidal to do anything else

Sure. Not super-wrong, but I think races with differences tend to be more interesting than them all being equal for some/no reason. It strikes me as a case of balance for the sake of balance, which I find uncompelling and bland. One of TFT's main strengths in my mind is that despite it's simplicity, it manages to create a game where many things work with logical cause/effect and proportions. Making almost all races have identical attributes and XP costs seems to me like a sacrifice of some of those things to a type of "balance" I'm not interested in.

In original TFT, one reptile man PC was tried. He was indeed very powerful for a starting character, but in using that power in human lands, he also was seen by everyone as a monster... game over. Sort of the reverse of the "suicidal to do anything else" notion.

Originally Posted by hcobb

How many Reptile Men, Reptile Women and hatchlings does your Dran have?

I'm thinking my 1300 number is excessive. Cut that down and your PC is the one and only lizard wizard in Dran.

Mine doesn't have an established population of reptile men at all. There are only a few visitors and fewer who live there. The nearest reptile man nation is IIRC a few maps the size of the Dran map distant.

[mark hill]

Originally Posted by Skarg

.. Making almost all races have identical attributes and XP costs seems to me like a sacrifice of some of those things to a type of "balance" I'm not interested in.

You know .. youre right man. I rescind my earlier comments .. SCREW balance, the very unequal species are really important to making Cidri what it is.

Down with equality! lol

[JLV]

Carrying the "equal starting points" to its natural extreme -- all starting Dragon characters must be 32-points...

[mark hill]

Originally Posted by Skarg

In original TFT, one reptile man PC was tried. He was indeed very powerful for a starting character, but in using that power in human lands, he also was seen by everyone as a monster... game over. Sort of the reverse of the "suicidal to do anything else" notion.

wow .. thats pretty different from players I knew .. most lil parties of 4 or 5 guys would almost always have one of the 'big four' (reptile, garg, giant or centaur) to provide muscle. 'Gargoyle with a pikeaxe' was the most common, so common it was a cliche, and a commonly cast illusion to boot :) reptile men were easily the second most common 'big guy' in a party

there wasnt any significant racism by npcs to these big fellas as long as they were in a party of the common species .. 'dont worry about him, hes with us' kinda thing

[hcobb]

Gargoyle with a Silver Halberd Staff checks every box except for fire weapon.

[mark hill]

halburds can be staffs now?? man .. about what, 2 weeks I can buy the rules?

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by mark hill

wow .. thats pretty different from players I knew .. most lil parties of 4 or 5 guys would almost always have one of the 'big four' (reptile, garg, giant or centaur) to provide muscle. 'Gargoyle with a pikeaxe' was the most common, so common it was a cliche, and a commonly cast illusion to boot :) reptile men were easily the second most common 'big guy' in a party

there wasnt any significant racism by npcs to these big fellas as long as they were in a party of the common species .. 'dont worry about him, hes with us' kinda thing

The time we played it, the reptile man didn't start with any comrades, which perhaps added to the "it's a monster!" effect.

We didn't have any gargoyle, giant or centaur PCs, nor did those races usually show up in most human civilized places. Players could have tried, but there would be quite a few social, practical, and reputation/identification logical consequences.

Also tactical consequences... a conspicuous most-threatening member of a group tends to get targeted with prejudice by the other side. Polearm users (original rules so double damage charges and no "straight line" requirements) and wizards also had short life expectancy because of this, unless they were careful and/or tough.

[mark hill]

LOL! yeah wizards we often called 'arrow magnets' :)

well it does sound like you guys had a different approach to the big races .. we not only used em lots, but even had garg and giants be fully paid up wizards guild members in good standing :) yeah I know, they were on the dumb side for wizards, cant say they were optimum builds lol .. but they were fun :)

and we also took the phrase in the gargoyle description 'hunting and eating rocks' to mean they hunted .. rocks

we also played it that they thought of gemstones as similar to candy, so you did NOT let them carry the loot lol