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Old 04-29-2012, 11:41 PM   #1
Stripe
 
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Default [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

Bad temper is one of the most common disadvantages in Dungeon Fantasy. However, a disadvantage that isn't a disadvantage isn't a disadvantage and in most dungeons, the the entire point is to get pumped up and kill everything.

The obvious way to make bad temper a disadvantage in a dungeon is to put someone or something in there that isn't supposed to be attacked for whatever reason. My favorite is to make that something more powerful than any PC with bad temper, and make that something obnoxious.

Once, I ran a Third Edition game where a drunken, somewhat-elderly dwarf (not a D&D/Warhammer/DF dwarf) was being pushy and belligerent in a tavern. He wasn't a fighter at all. He was a cobbler and shoe salesman, not a smith of any sort (again, not D&D/DF).

Well, the ill-tempered PC wanted to punch him in the nose with the "justification" that he had bad temper. Fine. He knocks him cold.

Then, a towering, full-plate wearing, great axe-wielding ogre walks in. Someone whispers that the ogre, named Gorefist, is an infamous gladiator turned mercenary and head-hunter. And, the big ogre warrior has three friends who are also big ogre warriors sporting mail, plenty of weapons and lots of battle scars.

Of course, all are crass and hostile.

But, now all of a sudden the PC doesn't want to use his bad temper as justification to attack!

"What?!" says I. "Oh, no. You have bad temper! Punch the ogre like you did the poor old dwarf!"

I've also done the rude mayor's son or sheriff in the bar and escort missions for nobles that were condescending and insulting. I've even done a city with a curse: "If any blood is spilled in violence on this ground, famine and war will be visited on the land." Things like that. There are several ways to make bad temper bad.

But, like I say, in a dungeon, rather than in the surrounding adventure, it's not quite as easy to come up with several different ways to tick a PC off when getting ticked off has serious negative consequences for that PC.

What are some of the ways that you've made bad temper a disadvantage inside a dungeon?
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

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Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
What are some of the ways that you've made bad temper a disadvantage inside a dungeon?
I watch for in-party tensions and have them make SC rolls (although most of the time players are on top of in character outbursts, anyway). Frustration with puzzles is another great reason for a Bad Temper SC roll, particularly if it leads to triggering something that you don't want triggered.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

A delicate device that holds a frustrating puzzle for the PCs to figure out but break it because you get mad and you never get the treasure.
Other PC interaction can trigger a roll.
An arguement over splitting of the loot could turn ugly.
NPC encounters you need to talk through rather then fight.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

Enemies taunting you to attack where it would be better to do something else.
Enemies taunting you to run at them (into trap-filled area).

---

In a purely combat-game I run I rule that any time you are attack you have to make a Bad Temper roll. If you fail you must attack back. If you can't attack the one who attacked you, you may chose to attack another enemy. If that's not possible you must chose to either Do nothing (yelling angrily) or Move towards the enemy. The turn your suffering from Bad Temper, you gain +2 levels of fearlessness.

(And it may not be a Defensive Attack or a Feint)


I have made similar rules for other common none-disads.

For instance for Overconfidence I have rule that: You have to make a self-control roll when ever you want to take an Aim Action, Evaluate or All out defense. If you fail, you must take another actions (you don't need to be careful or take aim, your awesome!). The turn you fail a Self-control roll you gain +1 Fearlessness.

or Impulsive: You have to make a self-control roll when ever you want to take an Aim Action, Evaluate, Wait or Do Nothing (unless stunned). If you fail, you must take another actions (can't wait!).
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

A good encounter for a PC with Bad Temper might be to have a super-naturally electrified orc taunt the PC and when he strikes it with his sword it sends a 10d jolt of electricity to the PC.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

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A good encounter for a PC with Bad Temper might be to have a super-naturally electrified orc taunt the PC and when he strikes it with his sword it sends a 10d jolt of electricity to the PC.
I respectfully but firmly disagree. This would be an example of a 'gotcha' encounter, in my opinion, where the GM tries to hose the players.

Bad Temper comes with a self-control roll. That is precisely so that the PC can try to rein in his temper rather than lash out when such an action might result in more trouble than he is willing to take.

If your campaign doesn't feature anything else than dungeon crawling, well then, I can see why you have a problem. Sir Pudding's & Refplace's suggestions for example would be good. Also if the other PCs argue against the course of action advocated by the PC with a Bad Temper. And of course, the usual taunting enemies, trying to provoke the PC into charging out of cover or something like that, putting the PC into a tactical disadvantage if he fails the SC roll (like advancing too deep and letting another enemy to outflank him). I'd avoid Electro-Orcs, though.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

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I respectfully but firmly disagree. This would be an example of a 'gotcha' encounter, in my opinion, where the GM tries to hose the players.
As b-dog has expressed before, his play style is generally Gygaxian in nature, so hosing the players is kinda the whole point. I agree that I would never do that in my own campaign, and am generally turned off from playing with an adversarial GM, but some folks roll that way. To my mind, the purpose of disadvantages isn't to make PCs' lives shorter, but instead more interesting (ie, complicated). Bad Temper can do just that, causing some inter-party conflict and heightening the tension at times.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

The way I deal with Bad Temper and similar disadvantages is quite simple:

There are encounters that are designed to be solved in a non-violent fashion. They can be "brute-forced", but then they offer less benefit (You find a wildmen colony in the caves, they know a little on the layout of the caverns, they don't really want to fight, but you are invading their homes, where their women, elderly and little live, so the first reaction is hostile. You could fight them, but they outnumber you by a lot. They will rain insults and threats on the characters when they enter the section - classic bravado trying to intimidate the characters into leaving them be. If the characters do not murder them, but instead make a showing that they don't want to harm them, they provide a safe resting place, give some information, and trade some shiny stones for food. If you put them to the knife, you don't get the information, the shiny rocks will be well hidden, and the fighting and smell of blood will make the area unsafe for resting)
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

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As b-dog has expressed before, his play style is generally Gygaxian in nature, so hosing the players is kinda the whole point.
Point of order: Gygax wasn't into murdering the PCs as quickly as possible either. "Gygaxian" is more whacky, weird and colorful than murderous.

I think the best term I've heard for b-dog's style of game is a term from RPG.net: "Fantasy <censored> Vietnam."
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: [DF] Making Bad Temper Bad for Murder Hobos

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
The way I deal with Bad Temper and similar disadvantages is quite simple:

There are encounters that are designed to be solved in a non-violent fashion. They can be "brute-forced", but then they offer less benefit (You find a wildmen colony in the caves, they know a little on the layout of the caverns, they don't really want to fight, but you are invading their homes, where their women, elderly and little live, so the first reaction is hostile. You could fight them, but they outnumber you by a lot. They will rain insults and threats on the characters when they enter the section - classic bravado trying to intimidate the characters into leaving them be. If the characters do not murder them, but instead make a showing that they don't want to harm them, they provide a safe resting place, give some information, and trade some shiny stones for food. If you put them to the knife, you don't get the information, the shiny rocks will be well hidden, and the fighting and smell of blood will make the area unsafe for resting)
Agreed. I'm currently running a DF game for "evil" PCs, so everyone has one or more of Bad Temper, Sadism, Bloodlust, etc. The main "drawback" for the group is that certain solutions to problems are simply off the table. They only stop to make friends if the alternative is clearly suicidal, and even then quite reluctantly. They attack with little or no provocation. When enemies offer truce, they laugh and keep fighting. The players don't really see it as a drawback, since they usually wanted to kill everything anyway. Occasionally, however, they run into situations where negotiation is clearly the best option, in which case we start making those self-control rolls...
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