Late TL8 skills (almost) everyone has

[AlexanderHowl]

Yes, I can guarantee you that the average high school student would make a criminally incompetent engineering (among other things). In my own case, I have never really had a time where I have not been forced to improve, so I feel that I have a number of academic skills at (Attribute)+2, such as Anthropology, Criminology, Research, Sociology, Teaching, Writing, etc. It is just the consequence of spending a couple of decades in academia.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Most people likely have zero points in Computer Operation, but have worked off the familiarity penalties, which is probably where the difference between those who use it daily and those who struggle comes from. Having zero points in a skill, but also worked off all the familiarity penalties, is probably quite common.

Bit of a necro, but familiarity penalties can only apply to skilled users, that is people who have invested CP in a skill, and reflect to penalties for unfamiliar equipment and/or software when applied to computers, they don't apply to people without the skill.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by scc

Bit of a necro, but familiarity penalties can only apply to skilled users, that is people who have invested CP in a skill, and reflect to penalties for unfamiliar equipment and/or software when applied to computers, they don't apply to people without the skill.

The skill involved isn't computer operations -- it's whatever you're using the computer as a tool to accomplish.

[bocephus]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

I know GURPS is not intended as a reality simulator, but I do like having a really solid model of "normal people" to get an idea how exceptional the main characters are.

There are times I question if I even have 10 points in skills combined. I probably have Driving (Automatic transmission Automobile) [2], which might be my single highest skill. Even jobs that supposedly required my engineering degree felt like they could be done by any 16 year old that could stay focused and pay attention. I might be less skilled now than when I graduated high school.

First I totally get what your saying with needing to have a baseline for the "everyman" to have an idea of just how exceptional the PCs are in your setting. Really though, playing is more about how exceptional are the PCs relative to their conflicts.

A story where "a bunch of random village kids age 15ish that get thrown into an adventure that will forever alter the world as we know it" is going to have a different flavor than a Supers Campaign where your relative ability compared to "Average_Joe_017" is way off the charts. Either way the only real comparison in a game is your abilities relative to your challenges. 250pt soldier against a 500pt demon is probably going to end badly for GI Joe. OTOH that same 250pt soldier against a group of 80pt alley thugs will probably come out ok. In neither scenario was it really important what point value the "everyman" has, thats why I dont stat out the barkeep, or the valet, or the clerk, or the police officer that gets encountered through the course of the adventure. Its an interesting question, but it just doesnt matter to the vast majority of game play. The "everyman" doesnt really matter after the game starts.

Thats also why when you try to stat yourself as a PC it doesnt really work.
Number one, there are a huge number of variables that go beyond "simple game mechanics".
Number two, even in GURPS there is some pretty hefty wiggle room where words like "competent" or "average" or "adventuring conditions" get used as though they represent a quantifiable absolute (again relative to game play this is fine, relative to reality simulation this would be horribly lacking).
Number three, a stat is a comparison to some sort of "Average" but in reality average doesnt break down to a number between 0 and 20. Nor does the sum of our ability fit neatly into one of four categories ST, DX, IQ, HT.

The largest disconnect is when you imagine yourself as a PC in this adventurous situation, vs actually finding yourself upside down in a car that is slowly filling with water. You are the sum of ALL of your experiences up to that point. Your not limited by an arbitrary game mechanic. GURPS is great but it cant predict the outcome of that situation, its not a life simulator, its a complex game system for role playing :)

I do try to envision my average "everyman" (or tiers of "everyman") before I decide the points the PCs will start with, because it gives me an idea where they stand on the ladder of exceptionalism. But once the game starts its only relevant if its meaningful to the PCs, and makes their story make sense. Example starting 200pt chars that come from a medieval farm where the highest value NPC in the area is the local lord thats a 100pt char and most of the commoners are 40-70pt doesnt make a lot of sense really (unless the vast majority of that value is main stats and not skills or status/rank type advantages). Likewise it doesnt seem to make much sense that your PCs are 100pt chars in a high school populated with 150pt students. PCs should be exceptional, but its relative to what your world represents as average and you determine is exceptional enought. PCs should be the heroes of the story, thats sort of the point. Unless its not ....

[AlexanderHowl]

Stranger Things involved a bunch of eleven year olds who saved the world in the first season, and they had noticeable skills (Bicycle, Electronic Operations, Games, Hobby Skills, etc.). One or two of them actually had a few unusual skills as well, such as Explosives (Fireworks), which reminded me a bit of my childhood in rural NC during the late 80s/early 90s. And then you had Eleven, who manifest abilities related to Dimensional Travel, ESP, Psychokinesis, and Telepathy, though that is abilities rather than skills.

[cptbutton]

Per Infinite Worlds:

Every mature Centran has 1 point in each of the following skills learned at his district Lyceum: Administration, Computer Operation/TL8, Mathematics/TL8 (Applied), Physics/TL9, Research/TL8, Running, Savoir-Faire (Centrum), and Swimming.

So that is 8 points at age 16 (graduation age). Of course, that is a result of 6 years of boarding school with:

Lyceums also use attention and memory-enhancing drugs and TL8 sleep teachers, among other advanced educational protocols.

Some old threads of possible interest:

Originally Posted by cptbutton

High School rather than college, but a discussion I started here, with responses:

Anime Ordinary High School Students

Another one where I just plugged the above, but others discussed things:

Default Statting a teenager--skills needed and likely

And actual thread about College!

Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels

(I only searched on threads I was in, so there may be others.)

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Sorenant

For basic education I think it only gives appropriate defaults.
Dabbler might fit for a particularly dedicated student
higher than average IQ and talent covers thoses that deals with some subjects better than others.

IQ and Talent AFAIK don't actually reflect any time whatsoever having studied the subject. I think that's the point of at least taking dabbler. Using something at default is essentially "as good as if I never tried it" unless we want to model that using Incompetent.

If "incompetent in all skills" is the baseline of newborns in many skills then I guess buying that off could be seen as introductory learning via basic education. Or starting off with maxed Anti-Talents and buying those off.

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Most people likely have zero points in Computer Operation, but have worked off the familiarity penalties

B169 "if you have the skill to use a piece of equipment, you are considered familiar with a new make or model after you have had eight hours of practice"

I don't know if it would actually be possibly to gain Familiarity with relying on a default, isn't at least 1 point needed to "have" a skill? Might not even be possible with Dabbler.

Also I think most people's ability to operate computers reflects more than eight hours of practice...

[Prime Evil]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I definitely have too high a level in Games (GURPS), though. To the point where assigning GURPS stats to the universe creates intrusive thoughts. To the point where I know which volume among hundreds, and often roughly which page, holds a rules clause.

Does this count as an Odious Personal Habit at the game table?

Originally Posted by Kromm

OThe combination is why I fear, if GURPS ever comes to an end, I'll be weirdly unemployable.

Please don't give us nightmares about GURPS coming to an end!

It's amazing how the system has weathered multiple transitions in industry economics and gamer taste. While it's in a different place to the days when there was a softcover release every month, it actually seems more focused now.