05-03-2012, 09:37 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
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05-03-2012, 09:44 AM | #42 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
Apparently not quelled at all. And in your rush to be snide, you apparently didn't even read the post, as in the first sentence of the second paragraph, I do indeed point out that "sapient" rarely has its strict "sixth century" meaning.
But it's obvious that you're on this topic just to be unpleasant. Enjoy your troll. |
05-03-2012, 09:47 AM | #43 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
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It seems clear to me that IQ less than 6 limits options by default (as does IQ 0) you don't get anything back for those restrictions its just preloaded into the cost of IQ. If you have greater than 5 IQ however they you have those options, but Traits or Taboos might override this, again without granting any extra cp back. Therefore the yardstick is simply if you start with some level of TL and a language and can further learn them in play/at character creation then you have Sapience, if not then you don't. Everything else is covered in other rules, which is why BS pg15 says nothing more on the subject.
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05-03-2012, 09:55 AM | #44 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
The IQ brackets are definitely prescriptive:
IQ 0: Nonsentient.If you dislike computers with IQ 6+ being sapient, then you should either avoid creating computers with IQ 6+ in the first place, or saddle computers that have IQ 6+ with disadvantages that limit or remove the offensive features of sapience. Reading over this discussion, it seems that a lot of people are unwittingly entangling concepts like "socialized" and "innovative" with "sapient." As written, the game defines sapience as IQ 6+; this doesn't preclude being unable to integrate into society, being utterly dull in the invention department, or being weirdly alien to humans. Which is to say, IQ 6+ crystal computers, super-complex alien slimes, and horror wolf-men are all sapient, however weird or monstrous they behave. "Sapience" doesn't have anything to do with "being like a human." It has to do with having sufficiently high IQ to acquire languages and technical skills. If the crystals and slimes can communicate linguistically, and if the wolf-men can try to pick up and shoot the guns that the heroes drop, then those beings are sapient.
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05-03-2012, 10:02 AM | #45 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
To say that an IQ of 6+ is necessary to be sapient does not mean that everything, real or fictional, with an IQ of 6+ is automatically sapient. Particularly when it comes to computers. Hence the distinction between limited and sapient AI in TS.
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05-03-2012, 10:04 AM | #46 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
That's my second case: "saddle computers that have IQ 6+ with disadvantages that limit or remove the offensive features of sapience." Absent those disadvantages, anything with IQ 6+ is indeed sapient in any way that matters. Don't forget that the Transhuman Space use of "sapient" in the technical terms for its computers (NAI, LAI, and SAI) is an in-setting label, not a formal use of the GURPS rules term. People in the setting actually rate computers with terms like "SAI-8," and the NAI/LAI/SAI split is along mental disadvantage lines in rules terms.
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05-03-2012, 10:07 AM | #47 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
Becuase someone in another thread objected to to use of the word "slavery" in regrades to AI saying it was a humans word. To which it was counter it wasn't a human word it was a person word. The come back was what is a person. And I said a good benchmark would be the were sapient.
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05-03-2012, 10:40 AM | #48 | |
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U.S.A.
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Re: Definition of Sapience - IQ6+ and other stuff
But those traits do not automatically make people non-sapient. For one thing, there are known cases of people who cannot speak but learned to write or sign, and are quite clearly sapient, and will correct your mistake if you assume otherwise.
Bestial comes close, though Basic p. 124 says you can try to roleplay a sapient bestial character; it's just super-challenging. Update 4e states that Presapient (called Presentient in 3e) is considered a set of Taboo Traits: a fixed IQ, can't learn languages, and certain skills and advantages you can't get. Quote:
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05-03-2012, 10:45 AM | #49 | |
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
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If he actually loses all ability to use tools and language on even a mental level, I'm willing to accept that, by the GURPS rules, he has become non-sapient.
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05-03-2012, 10:58 AM | #50 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Sapience and the Lack Therof
I don't buy that. Sapience should not give one a magical ability to violate innate programming.
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