Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

[jimminy]

Originally Posted by austinhaws

I see four main types of power gamers:
1 - knowing the rules and powers and choosing the best powers for your build (understandable after gaming for many years)
2 - scouring the internet for the most powerful character and making that character (maybe you should be playing a table top battle game)
3 - forcing your will on the DM so that all things turn to your good (bad for everyone)
4 - Those who stumble upon a power that ganks EVERYTHING (you did what?!)

To address #1 and maybe #2....

I agree that attempting to 'out power game' a power gamer is a road to disaster.

I actually sort of encourage power gaming. Both players in my current game aren't GURPS experts, though one is quickly becoming one. I scour the rules myself to find the 'kewlest tricks' for them and give them the best advantage. It's more fun for them that way! Mind you, I'm currently running an historical game with no magic, so being able to conquer and survive is a very good thing.

When I played D&D I remember powergaming sometimes being a big problem. It can be worse in a system with randomised stats, I think, because you really CAN have one guy who outshines everyone else in every single department. At least in a points based system you have a reasonable chance of everyone playing the character they want to play, and many don't care if they're outshone in combat or whatever because they don't want to be powergamers anyway.

#3 Hasn't really happened when I've been GMing, to my knowledge, but I understand why it would be frustrating for other players if one is clearly favoured. I don't know what to do if he beats your GM down. If your GM just favours him, well, slap that GM.

#4 I saw one in GURPS 3e when I didn't really know the psionics rule. Actually, one player cheated: He could turn invisible and float one hex in the air, but it left a tell-tale green mist, as a mitigator. Now, he created this character for an epic, week long RPG marathon we ran, with 6-8 players, every day, most of our waking hours, going through a huge series of dungeons/adventures. Unsurprisingly I kind of let my guard down during all this and trusted the players to police themselves and each other, to an extent, as you would with any good buddy or mature person. I forgot the green mist. The player conveniently did too and only 'remembered' when he had enough points to buy it off... what a coincidence! I just let him do it. What could I do, make every monster anti psionic and see psionic invisibility? He was clearing the dungeon at least. I wasn't going to go after him at the expense of the fun of all the other players. He wanted to buy it off... Okay, he bought it off. Another dragon stabbed in the eye by invisible one hex in the air man.

As it turned out, the player was such a... um, can't type that... picaroon anyway that the other players killed him. Basically what happened was, we had a PC once who was cunning, and screwed around other PCs in awesome and detailed ways; so clever that the other players just let him get away with it, because it was kind of cool. This one hex in the air PC player decided that he wanted in on that respect and street cred. His great plan was to go invisible, float one hex in the air and kill another PC... for no reason. Of course they knew all his tricks. There was a little GM, 'Are you sure?' He was sure. I just stepped back at that point.

So he kills one PC, fine. All these guys are super powerful by now. The dead PCs friends resurrect him with an item, no problem. The float one hex guy has run off. He decides to sit and hide somewhere... Meaning he gets the fun and excitement of sitting around doing nothing until something interesting happens. The other PCs catch him and with utter ruthlessness use their whole arsenal against him. Within two seconds he is not just dead, but irrevocably destroyed, thanks to all the crazy magic gear these PCs are bristling with.

I guess the moral is, #4 will probably take care of himself, eventually, if his head gets too big. Otherwise, I don't know what to recommend, except to think laterally and give problems that can't be solved by Baron Von Wonderpower of Loopholius.

Fortunately, #4 has never happened to me since, and it taught me to be much more careful.

[jimminy]

Incidentally, I'm not religious but I've been reading the Bible recently and it made me think... What about a campaign where one guy can do crazy magical things but no-one else can... What happens to the PC? What happens to the world? The power becomes less interesting than the moral choices the PCs make around it. The PC can change the world... What does he do? Is he a prophet or a devil? Only a few people deserve to have earth shaking power...

Also, when the people in awe of him become aware he is a one trick pony...

If it's GURPS, go hard on the mental disadvantages, to see how the PC copes with all the attention and moral grey areas!

Mr Loophole could be a key to a whole new campaign!

I do really want to run a one on one campaign one day where just one person in an ancient or medieval world has magic, and no-one else on earth does. What happens, how does history change, how is he treated, what choices does he make, etc etc... 'I swear from this day forth to fight evil!' 'I shall rob banks!' etc, but very interesting if the rest of the world is mundane and the PC becomes slowly aware of how unique and special power.

I mean, even 'Create Food' in the real world... Geeze, what would happen? Add a few more fun spells as time goes on...

[Antiquation!]

I don't see the necessity in thwarting any type of gaming, aside from the disruptive kind. People can build their characters to be as powerful and efficient as they like, as long as they stay within the parameters and resources that I allot them; after all, isn't that where some of the fun is, at least in some ways? To build your character to be the best at what they do is understandable, if not admirable, in my opinion.

That being said, people who power build to outshine other players and deliberately hog the spotlight is certainly something that qualifies one for a good smite. In this situation, trimming must be done. If the player doesn't have the guts to do it then as GM I take the responsibility upon myself.

[rust]

Originally Posted by jimminy

As it turned out, the player was such a... um, can't type that... picaroon anyway that the other players killed him.

Mental note to myself: Never play with Jimminy's players ... :)

[LemmingLord]

Originally Posted by Antiquation!

That being said, people who power build to outshine other players and deliberately hog the spotlight is certainly something that qualifies one for a good smite. In this situation, trimming must be done. If the player doesn't have the guts to do it then as GM I take the responsibility upon myself.

It is good to have good dialog about things. If one player is making things less fun, then have a talk with them one on one. Be specific about just one element of behavior you want them to tone down. Meanwhile, for players having less fun, try to gage what they need and give them more spotlight.

Sometimes it is good to resort to montyhallism. If you've got one fellow stealing the spotlight with his ultimate character at the expense of another player, give the character who hasn't been given his due a cool magic item that makes them instantly the chosen one for an adventure.

[Antiquation!]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

It is good to have good dialog about things. If one player is making things less fun, then have a talk with them one on one. Be specific about just one element of behavior you want them to tone down. Meanwhile, for players having less fun, try to gage what they need and give them more spotlight.

Sometimes it is good to resort to montyhallism. If you've got one fellow stealing the spotlight with his ultimate character at the expense of another player, give that player a cool magic item that makes them instantly the chosen one for an adventure.

You make a good point, smashing the player character's shiny bits into pieces isn't the best way and is far from the only way to handle this type of thing.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Roleplaying gaming is supposed to be escapism.

Yeah? Says who?

Bill Stoddard

[Kyle Aaron]

Originally Posted by Antiquation!

People can build their characters to be as powerful and efficient as they like, as long as they stay within the parameters and resources that I allot them; after all, isn't that where some of the fun is, at least in some ways? To build your character to be the best at what they do is understandable, if not admirable, in my opinion.

Unless it's a random roll character generation system. An old and possibly reactionary idea, I know. But let's not be communist about this. Not everyone has to be equal.

Originally Posted by Antiquation!

You make a good point, smashing the player character's shiny bits into pieces isn't the best way and is far from the only way to handle this type of thing.

It's actually very effective. "But just tell them that -" Showing works better than telling.

The player imagined that by choosing k3w1 pw0rz, they were ensuring success. By smashing their shiny bits into pieces, you demonstrate that nope, that didn't work. Next time they ought to use their creativity and imagination in game rather than trying to find a loophole in the rules and drive a katana-shooting tank through it to wreak bloody havoc on the campaign.

[smurf]

Powergaming is just a phase.

Out play them is the way to beat it, either beat them with something less gamey or enjoy it more than the powergamer.

Hell, I play Warhammer and there is too much PG in them, but with themed armies we can have fun.

Talking of which, I'm going to take my mates Empire Army apart this weekend.

Usually with a pts system it is hard to PG.

Of course you could give something challenging for the non PGers and something really easy for the PGer.

After all the PGer wants it easy.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by smurf

After all the PGer wants it easy.

No we don't.