Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-16-2009, 07:59 PM   #21
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Hm. That is interesting. That opens up the way for a new term to describe someone who enjoys playing powerful characters without any negative connotations. Any ideas? High-powered Player?
What I called the person I thought of that way was "a totally benign power gamer." Maybe it's time to grant the word a neutral usage.

I perfectly sympathize with the joy of playing a powerful character; I had a blast playing the combat monster in Eben's campaign, which served as the playtest for GURPS Supers. But she wasn't the ONLY powerful character in that campaign. . . .

Bill Stoddard
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 09:00 PM   #22
roguebfl
Dog of Lysdexics
 
roguebfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
This is a distinction which was made for about fifteen minutes several years ago, and it's a pity it seems to have vanished, since I think it's a useful one. Seeing as power fantasy is an element of a lot of people's gaming, it's good to be able to distinguish between people who enjoy playing characters who are, among other things, powerful, and people for whom a single-minded pursuit of power is the sole point of interest.
It is Also if I remember correctly the distinction made by Robin Laws, this Robin Laws's guide to Good Gaming
__________________
Rogue the Bronze Firelizard
Gerald Grenier, Jr. Hail Eris!
Rogue's Weyr

Last edited by roguebfl; 07-16-2009 at 09:05 PM.
roguebfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 09:06 PM   #23
quarkstomper
 
quarkstomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Enchanted Land-O-Cheese
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

I was just going through some old material today and came across a piece I wrote a few years ago for a gaming column I had on another website. The piece is entitled The Care and Feeding of Mary Sues and is roughly about this subject.

I used the term "Mary Sue" for this type of player partially because at the time I was unfamiliar with the term "Munchkin" but mostly because I had been doing a good amount of online RPGs with players coming out of a fanfic background, some of whom had a tendency towards Mary Sue-ism.
quarkstomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 09:14 PM   #24
tHEhERETIC
 
tHEhERETIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Life imitates art--I'm in Pohang
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
The real issue is how to get people not to spoil the game for other people. And that's not best addressed by out-power-gaming them, if that's where their problem lies. Often it's the very fact that they're forced into a power-gaming style of play that they dislike that makes other sorts of player resent the power gamer in the first place. And the power gamer is likely to be better at it!
Amen. I left a really addictive LARP because I preferred a political style of game, and the combat-built characters could just walk in and shoot us all down. And did. When I got the offer to optimize my next character to survive such a combat, I turned it down. I like a character with wacky abilities (repairing clothing was one of hers--excellent for bartering, useless in combat).

Now admittedly there were other issues--players who felt it was perfectly legitimate to take advantage of the administration of the club in order to further character goals. Munchkinry that was only technically not cheating. That's not an issue most RPers face, given that most games have a single GM.

To put it more simply, a gun wins arguments. If other players prefer an intellectual argument, the powergamer who exploits that fact wins the scene and destroys the game. whswhs has that list nailed IMHO.

Generally speaking a combative player-character should act as part of a team, and hold back his powers until the more reason-oriented characters feel it's appropriate to use them. And he should never turn them against a non-combative character, not matter how badly the character would want to. Player must respect player.
__________________
Criminy...these two have enough issues, they can sell subscriptions! (ladyarcana55, in a PM)
tHEhERETIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 11:24 PM   #25
JanMaster
 
JanMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

As a powergamer myself, I really don't see the harm in it if you know what you are doing and, as stated before, respect the game and players.

The one game that you simply can not really powergame is Call of Cthulhu in my mind. Powergaming there is complitely useless and pointless. Horror is the genre that powergaming just won't do. And it's fun to play from time to time something complitely different.

One of the funniest powergaming insidents I have ever had was with my ex-girlfriend. She was GMing and was totally unprepeared for the combat monster me and my friends made. She didn't limit our choices or comment on the chars. After one or two session we sort of stopped that campaing because it was not working and nobody was having any fun. We just shot everything that she tried to put against us.

The most interresting chars I currently play is in Dark Heresy. He is a sosial monster. He's got every single talking skill in the book and (of course) they are at a high level. He can pretty much talk his way out of any situation. This type of power gaming is a first to me and it has been rather fun. Maybe I'll try this talking thing again in the future.
__________________
When I get to the pearly gates, is God going to put up a fight or just move over and let me sit down?
JanMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 12:38 AM   #26
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMaster View Post
Horror is the genre that powergaming just won't do. And it's fun to play from time to time something complitely different.
I try to play something completely different nearly every time.

And I find that powergaming doesn't work in a lot of genres. My last three full-length campaigns were as follows:

Boca del Infierno: A historical horror/supers campaign using Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Frequent combat and high-powered spells, but the engine is one that lets you balance the power gaming of the Slayer against the character parts of the supporting cast and not spoil anyone's fun.

Manse: A high fantasy soap opera using Big Eyes Small Mouth, set in a collaboratively created microworld. We could easily have multiple sessions go by without combat. One of the most important and recurrent activities, in fact, was courtship. On the other hand, I have to admit that the head of one of the clans won lasting admiration when he woke up in the middle of the night, naked, in bed, just as an assassin struck at him, and managed not only to survive but to take the assassin prisoner with his bare hands.

Whispers: A mystery campaign set in Transhuman Space. Damned close to no combat at all in three years. Instead, we had investigation, defense against hazardous memes, artistic creativity, and character interaction. The supereffective characters were the ones with high IQs, such as the forensic analyst who could probe the programming of a nanite swarm, paint a brilliant picture, or cook the best Japanese food in Montreal.

Bill Stoddard
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 03:42 AM   #27
Kyle Aaron
MIB
 
Kyle Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Before every game session, the GM ought to psych themselves up by looking in the mirror, putting on a scowling face, and say, "I am the GM, I wear the Viking Hat! Players are my gimps! I run the game, not 300 pages of recycled paper full of typos and second-rate art!"

Then during the game session, power gamers are easily dealt with by the firmly-spoken words, "No, don't be stupid."
__________________
* husband * father * personal trainer * gamer * ... in that order
"Kyle's games aren't remotely thespy... I'd say they're more high-minded hack."
Kyle Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 07:58 AM   #28
Peter Knutsen
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
This is a distinction which was made for about fifteen minutes several years ago, and it's a pity it seems to have vanished, since I think it's a useful one. Seeing as power fantasy is an element of a lot of people's gaming, it's good to be able to distinguish between people who enjoy playing characters who are, among other things, powerful, and people for whom a single-minded pursuit of power is the sole point of interest.
Roleplaying gaming is supposed to be escapism.

Also, people need to discern between power accumulation and power usage. The first one is perfectly happy to start at 1st level and then go about collecting XPs and magic items. The second wants to start at 400 CPs (or more) and wants the game tob e about his charcter imposing his will on the surrounding world.
Peter Knutsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 03:19 PM   #29
trooper6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Medford, MA
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Roleplaying gaming is supposed to be escapism.
Is it? Not all art is escapist in the sense of making your feel powerful and fluffy bunnies.

Art can also be for catharsis.

There is tragedy as well as comedy.

I think roleplaying gaming can be a lot of different things. Not just power fantasy escapism.
trooper6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 03:41 PM   #30
moldymaltquaffer
 
moldymaltquaffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Idaho
Default Re: Power Gaming and How To Thwart It

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron View Post
Then during the game session, power gamers are easily dealt with by the firmly-spoken words, "No, don't be stupid."
QFT.
(That's Quoted For Truth. And filling the character requirement.)
moldymaltquaffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
power build

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.