Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

[Ronnke]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

There you go, this whole subject is largely moot.

You don't need SJG permission to create a complete and original setting that will attract players to GURPS. You do need it if you intend to use their IP commercially. According to the online policy you can publish characters, animal/monster/racial templates, and use GURPS rule terminology online as long as you are not selling it.

A complete setting book would not violate any current SJG policies. Ultimately, a community project like this will be the property of SJG and should be done with their blessing. And... if it is a raging success with D&D players converting by the thousands, I really don't think SJG would say, "no we're not interested in developing this product line because it's on our anti-list".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

You don't need SJG permission to create a complete and original setting that will attract players to GURPS. You do need it if you intend to use their IP commercially. According to the online policy you can publish characters, animal/monster/racial templates, and use GURPS rule terminology online as long as you are not selling it.

A complete setting book would not violate any current SJG policies. Ultimately, such community will be the property of SJG and should be done with their blessing. And... if it is a raging success with D&D players converting by the thousands, I really don't think SJG would say, "no we're not interested in developing this product line because it's on our anti-list".

They aren't going to publish it for you for free, which is what I gathered you intend.

[Ronnke]

The community creates it, gets it recognised, builds the GURPS fanbase, makes sure that everything meets the SJG guildlines, etc. The intention would be to build something that will bring lots of new players to GURPS. If it is a success then hopefully SJG will pick up the ball and continue the product line with the supplements created for SJG profit.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

The community creates it, gets it recognised, builds the GURPS fanbase, makes sure that everything meets the SJG guildlines, etc. The intention would be to build something that will bring lots of new players to GURPS. If it is a success then hopefully SJG will pick up the ball and continue the product line with the supplements created for SJG profit.

Doesn't usually work that way. I have seen richly developed game worlds for gURPS posted for f\ree. Heck you can follow links of some folks here and get to some o fthem.

But you do not see the fan base jumping to these frfee settings in droves and there is little reason to believe printing them up and getting them onto the shelves of game stores will make a significant difference.

[moldymaltquaffer]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

That comes down to the method in which it is handled. You need to develop a process where the views of those that "want elves" and those that "want unique races" can churn away in the ideas machine. What comes out might be "unique elves", or a world with elves, dwarves, and unique races what work well within the setting. There are systems for collaborative development, google "project management collaboration techniques" and you will probably find all sorts of stuff.

I've tried doing this on multiple occasions. They always fall apart, and very quickly at that. Even when I'd done tons of prep-work and gotten specific commitments from all the participants about the framework they were supposedly working within.

If you want a developed setting, you're going to have to do most of the work yourself. Getting a group together for the initial brainstorming is good, but after that... Too many cooks spoil the soup.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

And little bit more on topic, GURPS as a system can easily compete with the popular D20 systems, you just need the right vessel to divide and conqueror that player base. I believe that vessel in terms of gamers, that is a FREE uber setting. Gamers stereotypically have little funds to spend on their hobby, but they still manage to buy that book of their desires. Imagine how they would flock to a game that was as colourful anything they have seen on FLGS shelves, but this was free. Free to play, MMO's have been doing it so that they can try topple blizzards hold on WoW players, and it works.

Some classic examples of market leaders that have lost significant marketshare to competing products.

Playstation vs XBox: Think back, how many said xbox will go nowhere because PS had the market all sewn up. Halo, need I say more.

Netscape vs Internet Explorer vs Firefox and others: Netscape was king, Microsoft pushed IE with its windows releases, and now the open source Firefox and its like are hammering the IE marketshare.

Windows vs Apple vs Linux: This was something that Windows had a complete monopoly on, now look at the shape of that marketplace.

The last two are really bad examples. Microsoft used Robber Baron tactics to deep six Netscape and finally got called on it.

The Windows vs Apple vs Linux example is just flat out WRONG. Windows never had a complete monopoly. There were places where Apple and Unix were (and still are) king.

There is a reason Microsoft is scared out of its wits regarding cloud computing ala Google--the majority of Windows computers are used in a matter well suited to the server-dumb terminal that cloud computer has dusted off and given a high tech upgrade. Take out the word processors and spreadsheets and there is not much left to keep MS doing 'hey look at this new feature that most of you will never use' nonsense.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Doesn't usually work that way. I have seen richly developed game worlds for gURPS posted for f\ree. Heck you can follow links of some folks here and get to some o fthem.

But you do not see the fan base jumping to these frfee settings in droves and there is little reason to believe printing them up and getting them onto the shelves of game stores will make a significant difference.

This relates to a common misunderstanding of how the Long Tail works. Too many people think just because you have this huge library of stuff that people will buy more of your stuff. But unless you have a way to relate what they like to what you have it doesn't do squado.

Sure there are a lot of richly developed free GURPS worlds out there but how many people even know they exist?

[VisceralShoe01]

I was reading this thread randomly... And ( I forget by who) there was a comment stating that most people probably didn't start out with GURPS as their first rpg.... But, for me, I was introduced to 3e as my first RPG experience. In fact I have only ever played 3e gurps and shadowrun(not sure of the edition) one time each. But I have gained more interest in d&d 5e, mainly because of "critical role". But I have most of the 4e gurps stuff available on e23, as well as, the first printing of the dfrpg box set, which in in the process of trying to get a group together for. But, from what I've seen personally, a lit if my friends that play d&d have Expressed interest in gurps after I explained the overall diversity of the system. But d&d is the bigger name for sure. If I talk to people unfamiliar with table top RPGs and I mention gurps, they ask me "what's that?" To which I have to reply," it's like d&d with less dice". And then they are like "oh, ok".

[VisceralShoe01]

Sorry for previous typos lol...

[maximara]

The biggest factor is that the guts of the entire D20 system along with a good hunk of the D&D stuff was allowed to be put online as Hypertext d20 SDR.

The closest thing GURPS has to to that is a mixture of GURPS Lite, GURPS Character Sheet, and the GURPS wiki (which I have put a lot over effort is making a lot better then it originally was. Large hunks of it were nothing more than the page number of the GURPS book where something was)

The second biggest factor is perceived complexity.

A D20 character is reasonably easy to put together (stats, race, class) while GURPS is a bit overwhelming because you have to have a reasonable handle on what skills are relevant and GM who also understands the system well enough to keep you from doing something dumb like spending an insane amount of points on First Aid so that Physician has a reasonable default (someone actual presented this on a forum as a example of how GURPS was "broken" and I tore them to shreds by showing how stupid the GM had to be to even allow that nonsense).

The third factor was constancy.

GURPS 3e (and the 3.5 patch) was as far as the Universal part concerned a totally FUBARed train wreck. Sure 4e fixed that but it didn't come out until 2004 (with the last printing of 3.5 also in 2004) some four years after D20 came out.

For the TL;DR crowd - freely accessible guts of one setting online, perceived complexity, and constancy.