Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

[Mylon]

Originally Posted by knarf

This simply means that the game does a lot of the communicating in regards to "This is what the game will be about" and quickly puts player and GM on the same page. GURPS takes more work in that regard, but that is because it's universal nature lets you do lots of different things with it.

I think without such a rigid framework accomplishing this task with my current playgroup would be very difficult.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Mylon

I think without such a rigid framework accomplishing this task with my current playgroup would be very difficult.

I count it as part of my job as the GM to provide the framework. Or as much of one as is needed; my players seem to be more able to make things up.

Bill Stoddard

[Mylon]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I count it as part of my job as the GM to provide the framework. Or as much of one as is needed; my players seem to be more able to make things up.

Bill Stoddard

My group consists of a powergamer. He is incapable of knowingly making sub-optimal choices. He is also not terribly creative and tends to play quiet characters that dominate in one particular field. He will also help the group plan strategy, but when it comes to role playing he's not particularly interested or if he is he's very quiet about it.

I also have another player that's difficult to classify. He also plays power-gamer style, but will make some sub-optimal choices for character flavor. His characters often tend to be very individualistic and may contrast with the rest of the party to the point where he will threaten harm on other party members simply for getting in his way. Not a very cooperative sort. Oddly enough, this player does make a decent GM.

Another player is quiet, very follow-the-leader type. His motivations are difficult to gauge, but he does enjoy playing and is disappointed if we get together and do not game. He'll often make very poor choices that results in the death of his character, though some times he has a very heroic or memorial death. This does not bother him, as he does enjoy making new characters.

The fourth player likes to be flashy and showy and does favor style over performance. Role playing is his style, but he tends to over-assume a few too many things, yet still prefers to play the quiet stranger type, which makes getting him hooked into role playing difficult.

All of the players are long time friends of mine, and I may be putting my friendships before my full potential enjoyment of the hobby. We've tried a good many other systems, but D&D 3.5 (and now Pathfinder) is the one we keep coming to because everyone knows the rules and it lays out enough groundwork to make it something other than an exercise in frustration.

[Whome?]

D20 is fabulous. Great system. I just got OGL Horror and OGL Cyberpunk and they are among the best books i've ever bought - nice full color hardbounds.

All rpg players I know play multiple games - Traveller, WOD, Gurps, Call of Cathulu, D20, etc. Savage Worlds got four hardbound full color books last year.....hmmmmm

But if a book like OGL Cyberpunk is good - I can play Gurps with it - easy conversion. I've even converted Gurps Traveller adventures to Mongoose Traveller - nothing to it really.

So - if a Gurps book is well produced - say Ultra Tech for 4e, the person buying it may want it for a D20 game - etc. I would include a copy of Gurps lite in every hardbound they publish so that Gurps gets a little advertizing in every book.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by MKMcArtor

Just for the sake of clarity, the d20 system is not dead. D&D 4e is a d20 system, but Wizards of the Coast doesn't really advertise that. The reasons for that are diverse and you probably don't care, so I'll spare you.

I disagree. The system was changed significantly with new edition (enough that Piazo is able to sell Pathfinder to 3.5 loyalists). They dropped all pretense of it being a generic system and both licenses (the OGL, and d20), which were key elements of the "d20" marketing strategy. Yes it uses a twenty sided die, and thus is a d20 system (but so are many others) but it isn't the "d20 System". D&D 4e has a "d20" logo, but it is a different trademark, and doesn't represent a licensed system as the old d20 did. AFAICT 3rd party products now are more traditional licenses on a case by case basis.

Originally Posted by MGibster

Well the thread title doesn't say a darn thing about d20 modern it just mentions the d20 system. I suppose it's been a while since I read the opening post.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

Nah, you're right. I skimmed through the beginning of the thread again, just to see. The OP repeatedly makes mention of D20 or the D20 system. First time he even mentions D20 Modern is 18 pages in, as one of two examples (The other being D&D) of D20 systems.

In fact... That seems to be his (or her, whatever) only mention of D20 Modern in this thread. He mentions other settings (Especially D&D) more frequently. So I don't get sir_pudding's objection that the thread is about D20 Modern, not D20 games in general. Yeah, the guy might have played that system more, but everything in this thread seems to be addressing the whole D20 system, including D&D...

trapped_slider was a troll. He consistently posted that GURPS was inferior to d20 Modern. He often said that he didn't play D&D.

I'm not disagreeing that the the "D&D" brand is the big dog of the RPG world. It most manifestly is, without dispute. However this is true of OD&D, AD&D 1-2e, D&D 3-3.5e, and D&D 4e. Only 3-4th edition has called itself a "d20 System" and only 3rd edition was part of the same "d20 System" that the OP was actually trying to push.

I submit that there is nothing inherently popular about the d20 System by itself if you don't include D&D. Nowadays there is no d20 System if you don't include D&D. The OP's basic premise was not only flamebait it is now proven historically wrong.

Originally Posted by MKMcArtor

I totally agree with this. d20 has the OGL, but that isn't the complete game. It lacks crucial parts of character creation and advancement, which was part of WotC's design.

"d20" and "OGL" were actually separate licenses. A "d20" license did allow you to include character generation rules. The "OGL" was the free one that allowed you to use the SRD. However, neither license is currently supported, AFAICT.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Whome?

I would include a copy of Gurps lite in every hardbound they publish so that Gurps gets a little advertizing in every book.

It would be far more cost effective to prominently mention the link for downloading GURPS Lite. Including GURPS Lite in every book would be a waste of paper, and tick people off for having to repeatedly pay for the same material.

[Mylon]

Originally Posted by capnq

It would be far more cost effective to prominently mention the link for downloading GURPS Lite. Including GURPS Lite in every book would be a waste of paper, and tick people off for having to repeatedly pay for the same material.

Paper isn't the major cost of a book. Many people might be more likely to enjoy the freebie, even if redundant, than are to bother with the hassle of visiting a website. Then again, the average gamer could be very difficult from your, "Can't be bothered" kind of consumer.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Mylon

Paper isn't the major cost of a book. Many people might be more likely to enjoy the freebie, even if redundant, than are to bother with the hassle of visiting a website. Then again, the average gamer could be very difficult from your, "Can't be bothered" kind of consumer.

Page count is apparently a major cost with GURPS hardbounds. The paper might be not be expensive, but the binding probably is. I'd be really irritated if all GURPS books had Lite bound in them.

[Whome?]

Sadly, D20 as a generic RPG has kinda gone away. Many companies have left it. So much stuff has gone away - totally out of print. The new DnD 4e was apart of this - I'm pretty sure. DnD 4e I actually like - but it is basically a miniatures combat/roleplaying game - not like the old game really.

Gurps has survived over the years - and 90% of RPGs released over the years have not. And with lines like "Transhuman Space" getting excellent support - it has alot going for it. The Character Creator and Gurps Lite are amazing products.

I'd like to see a major Gurps release - like "Horror" for 4e be released as a full color hardbound - $34.95, (keep people like me happy) a black and white paperback - $29.95 and finally a full color .pdf - $24.95 at the same exact time. That way, everyone is happy.

I'd also like to see some of the .pdf releases gathered together and released as both a hardbound and paperback also. For example Transhuman Space personnel Files 2-5 could be gathered together and maybe a best of Pyramid Vol. 3.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Page count is apparently a major cost with GURPS hardbounds. The paper might be not be expensive, but the binding probably is. I'd be really irritated if all GURPS books had Lite bound in them.

Agreed. I hate filler, and that's what it'd be to me.