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Old 02-05-2018, 03:20 PM   #1
Alonsua
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Default MA: Technique Mastery

Hi there,

how comes that you can take Technique Mastery (Kicking) but you cannot do the same with Punching? Is it intended that you can easily train to be better at kicking than punching, but not on the contrary? Why?
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:44 PM   #2
mhd
 
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

Kicking starts out at -2, so you're better at punching by default.

There's also Boxing. TM(Kicking) mostly exists because there are real world styles that are focused more on kicking than punching (like TKD) and those get the TM listed. As has been pointed out here before, TM and most other perks in MA aren't supposed to be free for all grab bags.
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

Because punching is the core technique of striking arts while grapple is the core technique of grappling arts. If you want to improve the core technique, improve the associated skill (which also improves defenses and other related techniques).
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:00 PM   #4
Alonsua
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

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Originally Posted by mhd View Post
Kicking starts out at -2, so you're better at punching by default.

There's also Boxing. TM(Kicking) mostly exists because there are real world styles that are focused more on kicking than punching (like TKD) and those get the TM listed. As has been pointed out here before, TM and most other perks in MA aren't supposed to be free for all grab bags.
Yes, but then you can train Kicking up to +0 and take TM (Kicking) in order to raise it up to +4, while you are stuck with Punching at +0. How does that make any sense?
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:03 PM   #5
Alonsua
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Because punching is the core technique of striking arts while grapple is the core technique of grappling arts. If you want to improve the core technique, improve the associated skill (which also improves defenses and other related techniques).
As an example if you take TM (Kicking) at Karate 16 and raise it to its maximum you get Kicking 20 for 7 points and Punching 16. Since you want to increase your Punching skill (you dont like throwing Kicks all time and everywhere) you proceed to train your Karate up to 20 for 16 points, thus inherently increasing your Kicking to 24 too. So you can train your "Kicking skill" but you are stuck at Punching = Kicking - 4. How possible?
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:14 PM   #6
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

I take it that you have never studied Tae Kwon Do, where 75% of the striking training revolves around kicking. It is quite possible to be much better at kicking than punching in real life, just like it is possible to be much better at punching than kicking (reflected by having Boxing skill at a higher level than Karate skill when translated to GURPS). Is it inefficient? Yes, but modern martial art styles tend to be inefficient because lethal unarmed combat is unknown among most practitioners, so it is not particularly surprising.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:30 PM   #7
sir_pudding
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

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Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
As an example if you take TM (Kicking) at Karate 16 and raise it to its maximum you get Kicking 20 for 7 points and Punching 16. Since you want to increase your Punching skill (you dont like throwing Kicks all time and everywhere) you proceed to train your Karate up to 20 for 16 points, thus inherently increasing your Kicking to 24 too. So you can train your "Kicking skill" but you are stuck at Punching = Kicking - 4. How possible?
The same way that if you study a style that doesn't have Kicking you are stuck at Karate-2 or Brawling for kicks.

Styles with Kicking can make it so you are equally good at punches and kicks.

Styles with Technique Mastery (Kicking) flip this and train kicks up more. Effectively Kicking at Karate+4 is like a different skill that uses the same rules as Karate, except that punches default to it at -4.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

Techniques are mostly for pointing "how much you are better in this than in core task of the skill" - that's why you can't (and why there is no sense other than pure powergaming) make techniques from core task. This is almost like dividing by 0 :P

For most people kicking is more difficult than punching, so there is -2 penalty. But after not so long time of training you can kicking with as proficiency as you punching (I have many years of experience in kickboxing and Taekwon-do ITF (martial arts with great importance of kicking). Learning how to kick someone with ease almost equal to punching him, took me about just half year, and this is long time because I was training boxing earlier so was not-so-bad puncher at the start).

And as AlexanderHowl said - I know personally MANY people from Taekwon-Do who are kicking very well, but are much weaker with the fists. I think Technique Mastery is for cases like this. To pointing out you are much better in specific area of skill, than in core tasks. That's why you can exceed core skill just few points - if you will max this out, that "pointing out" it's done, and if you want to be even better, you have to raise core skill.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:36 PM   #9
Alonsua
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

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Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
Techniques are mostly for pointing "how much you are better in this than in core task of the skill" - that's why you can't (and why there is no sense other than pure powergaming) make techniques from core task. This is almost like dividing by 0 :P

For most people kicking is more difficult than punching, so there is -2 penalty. But after not so long time of training you can kicking with as proficiency as you punching (I have many years of experience in kickboxing and Taekwon-do ITF (martial arts with great importance of kicking). Learning how to kick someone with ease almost equal to punching him, took me about just half year, and this is long time because I was training boxing earlier so was not-so-bad puncher at the start).

And as AlexanderHowl said - I know personally MANY people from Taekwon-Do who are kicking very well, but are much weaker with the fists. I think Technique Mastery is for cases like this. To pointing out you are much better in specific area of skill, than in core tasks. That's why you can exceed core skill just few points - if you will max this out, that "pointing out" it's done, and if you want to be even better, you have to raise core skill.
Yes I agree about that being the main reason for TM (Kicking), but why would it be easier to learn how to kick better than punch than the contrary no matter what? As to why being at Karate 16 it is much easier (7 points) to raise Kicking to 20 than raising Punching to 20 (16 points)?
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:37 PM   #10
Alonsua
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Default Re: MA: Technique Mastery

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
The same way that if you study a style that doesn't have Kicking you are stuck at Karate-2 or Brawling for kicks.

Styles with Kicking can make it so you are equally good at punches and kicks.

Styles with Technique Mastery (Kicking) flip this and train kicks up more. Effectively Kicking at Karate+4 is like a different skill that uses the same rules as Karate, except that punches default to it at -4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I take it that you have never studied Tae Kwon Do, where 75% of the striking training revolves around kicking. It is quite possible to be much better at kicking than punching in real life, just like it is possible to be much better at punching than kicking (reflected by having Boxing skill at a higher level than Karate skill when translated to GURPS). Is it inefficient? Yes, but modern martial art styles tend to be inefficient because lethal unarmed combat is unknown among most practitioners, so it is not particularly surprising.
Same question for you:

"Yes I agree about that being the main reason for TM (Kicking), but why would it be easier to learn how to kick better than punch than the contrary no matter what? As to why being at Karate 16 it is much easier (7 points) to raise Kicking to 20 than raising Punching to 20 (16 points)?"
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