Combat loadouts for Transhuman Space 4e (RAW & Canonical!)

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

There's a situation that caused me to reconsider Cherry's armaments, and I started reading up on the arms and armour options in THS. (Also, another player in another THS game might be interested in results too.)

So, I'm looking for various ideas about optimising combat loadouts for various 'adventurers' and 'troubleshooters'. I'm looking for strictly canonical and RAW loadouts, i.e. Ultra-Tech is generally off-limits.

Here are some things I noticed and am wondering about:

Arms

The new rifles of 2100 are kinda meh:
The AMR (THS:CT p. 63) is a barely-lightened (light-barreled?) Barrett M82A1 (HT120).
The battle rifle (ditto) has an abysmal Acc 3, and 5d. But at least it has 100 shots.

The mini-missiles are actually quite good for taking down RATS and battlesuits - if they hit successfully. See below.

Ammo
Oh boy. The gun is good with those bullets. Most of this on p. 64 of Changing Times.

First of all, the absolute minimal upgrade - Stabilized Ammo - will do wonders for the skill levels, thanks to reducing the range by 30% for purposes of calculating range penalties. This is enough to compensate and overcompensate (assuming unaimed fire) for the battle rifle's low Acc.

Homing ammo is meh in 4e, because the wording of Homing is such that you must do an Aim if you want it to home in onto the target even at skill 10. That's before having to roll Guns in order to get any Acc after an Aim. It's basically a nice way to get rid of range penalties completely if you Aim. But really, having it be Guided is just better.

Laser-Homing. Speaking of Guided, it looks suspiciously like it's actually laser-guided, since you need to keep designating the impact point. But if it's not GURPS-Guided, it's meh.

Gestalt. Cool on paper, but probably inferior to Stabilized and Homing (Guided?) in practice, since it barely improves your chance to hit. Getting multiple hits instead of one isn't always the best thing.

AP and APS are meh. APFSDS (HT167) or even APFSDSDU (HT169) is brutally better (though I suspect DU is replaced with a TL10 material of some sort in THS).

For missiles, HEMP is, of course, good. Though HEAT (HT170) isn't much worse either if live in a Broken Dream.

I frankly don't get the attraction to SEFOP.

Accessories
The Gyrostabilized Weapon Harness (THS:CT 64) is, of course, good for high-Bulk and/or high-ST weapons when you have enough weight allowance.

There's also another black horse winner: Mini-Computer Sight (High Tech p. 157). This TL8 invention will give you +1 to Guns and another +3 to Acc. And since the computer can be hosted in your head while the guns already include a nanocamera and a laser, it seems like the weight/Bulk issue is solved by TL10.

Armour
Reactive Armour Paste (TS161) is must-have. It's also notably worse than the one in UT: no more DR multiplication against HEAT/HEMP/etc.

Given that a Clamshell (TS160) can be clamped onto flexible armour without any drawbacks, one can assemble a rather light Heavy Smartsuit + Heavy Clamshell, for DR 95 on the torso, but with only 18lbs of encumbrance.

Wearing an arachnoweave veil-and-hood under the helmet might be a good idea, since layering a flexible concealable armour piece under the helm does not affect DX (B286). That's a potential DR68.

Funnily, battlesuits (TS160) are up to DR70 and RATS are DR40-60 (various Shell-Tech pages), which is worse than layered armour.

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Thoughts, additions, comments?

Thanks in advance!

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

So, I'm looking for various ideas about optimising combat loadouts for various 'adventurers' and 'troubleshooters'. I'm looking for strictly canonical and RAW loadouts, i.e. Ultra-Tech is generally off-limits.
Thoughts, additions, comments?

Including page references to the different options or at least which books you used would help coordinate with your work so far.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

The point about SEFOP is the Linked damage which goes off inside the target due to the penetration. This Linked damage is automatically a Major wound if I recall correctly, and armour doesn't count against it.

Link does not go off 'inside' - Follow-Up does, and IIRC SEFOP is indeed Link. But I'll re-read.

Hmm. For 30mm,
HEMP is 6d×3 (10) cr + linked 2d cr ex [1d+1]
SEFOP is 5d×3+15 (3) cr
HEAT is 12d (10) + something linked

For 15mm,
HEMP is 5d×2 (5) imp + linked 1d cr ex [1d-1]
SEFOP is 4d+4 (2) imp

I don't see a benefit of SEFOP. The 'weak sides' seem to usually have like -30% DR compared to strong sides, but the penetration difference between warheads is bigger than that.

It seems like

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

For guns I recommend the Storm Carbine, it sits at a very nice sweet spot in the game system. Usually put an under barrel grenade launcher on it.

I recall the name from UT. Is it listed in TS books?

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

Remember that all numbers in TS are 3E. You either have to use Changing Times, accept some 4E from UT, or go with 3E numbers in a 4E game system. None of these options are ideal. We could do with another update book which details how all of UT applies or does not apply.

Well, I was reading Changing Times for the numbers, and falling back on the core Transhuman Space book where details were missing. And of course High-Tech, because it includes stuff that is proven to exist already.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

I'd tend to use Changing Times and then fall back to 4E UT if not in Changing Times. TS with its 3E numbers is one of the last places I'd look for combat numbers.

So far I haven't quoted 3e numbers (except that I took a look at 3e costs because THS:CT doesn't have them).

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

Ah with SEFOP when you fire it you can chose whether it goes off as SEFOP or APHEX, see UT154. It's the APHEX that has the follow up attack which goes off inside (yes I got that wrong, linked doesn't do that).

That doesn't seem to be how SEFOP works in Changing Times.

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

You are assuming that more damage and more penetration is always better. But in TS you sometimes have innocent bystanders you don't want to kill, expensive equipment you want to damage just enough to disable it, local law enforcement who frown on excessive use of force, pressurised habitats that you don't want to breach etc.

Well, yes, that's an issue, but in that case there's a reason to consider falling back on the bullets of the weapon, not missiles. I suppose a halfway situation is possible and nasty, yes.

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

And don't be so down on Homing. When you are at hundreds of yards of range it is great, because it eliminates range penalties. Outside on the surface of Mars this was fantastic.

It's fantastic when you can get a Concentrate in, can't afford to keep guiding it and/or need to keep Concentrating for more shots, and do not want to target hit locations. But when distances are below 500 yards (pretty much always inside constructs of any sort; pretty common in urban engagements), Guided is better due to having good chance to hit (no Range Penalties) but providing that without an Aim. Which is why I wonder about whether in 4e, Homing ammo can be multipurposed into Guided.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

There are game balance considerations too. When I was playing Florence the bodyguard Felicia, I didn't make her particulary optimal on weapons amd armour. Because if I had, the rest of the PCs being relatively non combative would have struggled to survive any enounter that challenged Florence. And I wanted a different feel from the weapons heavy Reign of Steel we'd just finished.

I don't know about the other campaign, but in my case, I'm not even looking for stuff my own character will wear. It's for a minion. I know what you mean, though.

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

I forgot to mention Legality Class. [ . . . ] Or does your campaign not consider Control Rating?

The campaign does consider (depending on jurisdiction), but my character has workarounds to get past the usual restrictions.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

And don't be so down on Homing. When you are at hundreds of yards of range it is great, because it eliminates range penalties. Outside on the surface of Mars this was fantastic.

I just realized that Homing missiles are worse than homing bullets because missiles have a range of 500.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

Reference? I don't recall that and my characters may have fired missiles further (which may have been a mistake of course).

The 1/2 damage range for missiles is actually the distance they cover per round, see "Homing Projectiles" UT146 top left. So it can take several rounds for them to hit, this has happened in play for me. I don't recall anything about a 500 yard max range, it seems remarkably short. As usual I am talking entirely 4E rules here, for example the IML in 4E UT145 has a range of 500/4000 ie. travels 500 yards per round with a max range of 4000 yards.

Both 3e and 4e missile stats specific to Transhuman Space are 500 yards:
TS156 lists both ½D and Max of missiles as 500,
p. 63 of Changing Times list missile ranges as simply 500, i.e. without marking any difference between ½D and Max.
So they have enough endurance for crossing 500 yards, and that's it.

[MatthewVilter]

Can I ask a ThS weapon question here?

*immediately asks question*

How are homing bullets used? I understand that game-wise they are used to get around range penalties but how does one control/fire/use one?

I'm trying to imagine using them in (say) ARMA and I just don't see what situation you would be in where you could set a target for one but not be able to just shoot the target normally.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

You make an Artillery (Guided Missile) roll to target it I believe. If you fail it attacks with only its basic skill level (listed for each homing type). If you succeed it attacks with its basic skill level plus the Acc bonuses of the weapon you fired it from. Either way it takes a round to fire which is when you're designsting the target and making that Artillery (Guided Missile) roll. This is all from memory so one or two details may be wrong but the basics are correct. It's all in the rules somewhere under homing ammo, check Ultra Tech 4E.

Almost right.

You Aim, and roll your skill*. On a success, you lock on, which means the shot will be done at 10+Acc. Fail, and it's just 10. Homing projectiles ignore range penalties. The rules are in Basic Set; strangely, UT lacks many of the ammo upgrades found in THS, including homing bullets.

This all fiddling is why I went for Guided ammo instead.

* == in the specific case of THS handheld guns, it's the appropriate Guns skill, not Artillery.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

I'm sure IR homing is in UT 4E. If not my memory is playing tricks. Hang on (footsteps go to bookshelf and return).

Yes it's on UT146, with options for IR and Multi Spectral homing. And the skill on UT146 is specifically stated as Artillery (Guided Missile) without regard to the weapon it is fired from. IR Homing rolls against 13 +1 per TL after introduction plus Acc if the Artillery roll succeeded. Multi Spectral rolls against 14 +1 per TL after introduction plus Acc if Artillery succeeded. 1/2D range is the speed of the weapon in yards per second, you can work out the flight time from that. Ultra Tech is published later than Characters, so its rules supercede eg. which skill to roll against.

I'm not sure it's physically possible to mount an IR or multispectral sensor on a bullet. On a missile - maybe. But THS homing bullets are Vision, not IR. And CT64 says to use the weapon skill, not Artillery.