[Martial Arts] Can I use Push Kick with Push

[chandley]

Basically.

It is a push with a leg, at Brawling or Karate-3. I feel that Push is basically another "martial art" skill, with its only basic attack being a Shove. So Im tempted to say "yep, you can Push Kick at Push-2 (for being a kick)".

Then I thought: What if I have the Kicking (Karate)+2 technique? Is Push Kick at -1 then? Seems like not (it is a separate technique from Kicking and doesnt default to Kicking), but why so?

Why Push Kick with Push? +1 damage and reach, basically. Potentially +2 damage with heavy boots, or +1 damage and +1 per die damage with hooves, etc. Or does NONE of that apply? I would figure reach would, at the very least.

[aesir23]

Martial Arts pg. 59 specifically states that you can substitute Push for ST when using Shoves, Sweeps, Trips, and, yes Push Kick. You'd still need to roll against your regular Karate based Push Kick.

As a house rule, I'd allow someone to buy Skill Adaptation (Push Kick Defaults to Push) in order to get the regular -2 DX +2 ST effect of using legs instead of arms--keep in mind, though that Push is based on Swing, so you'd be getting +2 damage (applied only to Knockback). You could then improve Push Kick (Push), but that of course wouldn't help you do a Karate based Push Kick. I don't think Boots, Claws, etc... would apply to Push, however.

As for the question, "why doesn't Kicking improve other kicking techniques?" they tried that in 3e, and it made Kicking too good a deal. In 4e, techniques can't default from other techniques.

[chandley]

Ah thank you Aesir23, I flew right past the Push skill description in MA.

And the rest of your reasoning is sound, even if the munchkin in me wants Kicking-The-Uber-Technique.