Scavenger diet

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A quick pass at rules for realistic scavengers and food poisoning:

Not what I meant. What I meant was such-and-such foods require CIS 1 to safely act as a main source of nourishment/energy, such-and-such require CIS 2 for safely and constantly living on it, such-and-such require CIS3 etc. Same for water. The primary point of CIS isn't a bonus to HT rolls - that one is better handled by Resistant, and the CIS bonus is incidental. The primary point is expanding what counts as food suitable to routine consumption.

Much like the issue of piloting rolls, a food isn't routine if it has a 1/216 chance of poisoning a person.

[Flyndaran]

I likely have 1 or a hypothetical 1/2 level of CIS, and I regularly decide that food is safe for me but not my GF. It really changes food prep and storage in ways that aren't in the rules.

Oddly, I have a less sensitive stomach than my cats, but they're atypical, of course. But it does mean that I may eat tuna that's a hair too far gone for their safety.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Not what I meant. What I meant was such-and-such foods require CIS 1 to safely act as a main source of nourishment/energy, such-and-such require CIS 2 for safely and constantly living on it, such-and-such require CIS3 etc. Same for water.

Realistically, food doesn't change that much in mass as it goes bad, it just becomes unsafe to eat. It's only when food really starts to rot that it loses mass and nutritional value. Additionally, animals which have levels of CIS might not eat certain types of foods.

But since CIS also assumes that you can consume foods that are psychologically or physically unpalatable to normal people, let's say:

CIS 1: Any food that's technically edible by humans but looks, smells, or tastes disgusting. E.g., curdled milk, burned bread, mixed up food scraps which have just been dumped into a clean(ish) garbage can.

Combined with levels of Resistance, most predators and omnivores have at least this level of CIS.

CIS 2: Stuff that a normal person wouldn't consider eating, but which is technically edible. It can be food which has lost significant nutritional value (to humans) as a result of decay or other similar processes, and/or organic materials which are only edible by humans with great difficulty. E.g., urine, leachate from rotting garbage, moldy cheese, shoe leather, raw intestines, rotted meat, rancid grease, fur, woody bits of vegetables.

Scavengers will typically have this level of CIS. Omnivores and Predators which consume their prey whole, or which are noted for their willingness to eat just about anything, like dogs, might also have it. Realistically, any critter with this level of CIS is also going to have some level of Resistance.

CIS 3: Anything with an organic base which isn't actively poisonous and which you can swallow, even if it doesn't have much nutritional value. E.g., muddy water contaminated with fertilizer runoff, dishwater, bones, hooves, horn, leaves, wood scraps, compost, manure.

This level of CIS pushes the limits of realism and is appropriate only for creatures which are legendary for being able to eat just about anything and survive on just about any sort of food. Realistically, maybe cockroaches, hyenas, rats, and vultures have it.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I likely have 1 or a hypothetical 1/2 level of CIS, and I regularly decide that food is safe for me but not my GF. It really changes food prep and storage in ways that aren't in the rules.

That's probably because humans have (or can develop) a certain amount of tolerance for bad food and drink once their gut bacteria adapt. That's why tourists might suffer from diahrrea after drinking marginally sanitary tapwater or consuming dubious street foods, but the locals don't have any problems with it.

A Perk-level form of CIS might be "tough digestion" which allows you to avoid such problems.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Oddly, I have a less sensitive stomach than my cats, but they're atypical, of course. But it does mean that I may eat tuna that's a hair too far gone for their safety.

Cats have a sense of smell that's 14 times better than a human's and they're fastidious about what they'll eat as an initial defense against food poisoning (their hair-trigger vomit reflex serves a backup). That means that your cats are probably smelling "off" odors that you can't detect.

There's also the likelihood that your cats are just spoiled rotten. If they were hungry strays they might not be so picky about the state of their tuna fish.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

CIS 2: Stuff that a normal person wouldn't consider eating, but which is technically edible. It can be food which has lost significant nutritional value (to humans) as a result of decay or other similar processes, and/or organic materials which are only edible by humans with great difficulty. E.g., urine, leachate from rotting garbage, moldy cheese, shoe leather, raw intestines, rotted meat, rancid grease, fur, woody bits of vegetables.

Scavengers will typically have this level of CIS. Omnivores and Predators which consume their prey whole, or which are noted for their willingness to eat just about anything, like dogs, might also have it. Realistically, any critter with this level of CIS is also going to have some level of Resistance.

I'm not sure about the "which consume their prey whole" bit - snakes consume their prey whole, yet are notoriously picky eaters.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

CIS 3: Anything with an organic base which isn't actively poisonous and which you can swallow, even if it doesn't have much nutritional value. E.g., muddy water contaminated with fertilizer runoff, dishwater, bones, hooves, horn, leaves, wood scraps, compost, manure.

This level of CIS pushes the limits of realism and is appropriate only for creatures which are legendary for being able to eat just about anything and survive on just about any sort of food. Realistically, maybe cockroaches, hyenas, rats, and vultures have it.

You've also got things like Lämmergeiers, which pretty much only eat bones. These wouldn't qualify for CIS, I imagine, but show that bones do have enough nutritional value to sustain large, active, warm-blooded animals,

Luke

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

...
Cats have a sense of smell that's 14 times better than a human's and they're fastidious about what they'll eat as an initial defense against food poisoning (their hair-trigger vomit reflex serves a backup). That means that your cats are probably smelling "off" odors that you can't detect.

There's also the likelihood that your cats are just spoiled rotten. If they were hungry strays they might not be so picky about the state of their tuna fish.

If only. They'll drink ice tea, or even glue water my GF rinses her brushes in if we don't block them. So it's not really a preference thing.
They had major health problems keeping anything down as kittens. I had to get special food for them. Even plain cooked chicken didn't stay down.
But like I said, they're atypical in a few ways.

That would be interesting for a PC of a scavenger race. One that can't handle old/rotten/etc. food like normal. They have to eat like a human. The horror.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

...
You've also got things like Lämmergeiers, which pretty much only eat bones. These wouldn't qualify for CIS, I imagine, but show that bones do have enough nutritional value to sustain large, active, warm-blooded animals,

Luke

According to wikipedia, it eats bone marrow, not getting much from the mineralized part. Just felt that needed to be made clear as I didn't quite understand, initially at least.

[Cowrie]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

UD requires excessive eating time. Most carnivores work on the gobble and go model, since who knows what bigger, meaner carnivore is lurking nearby. I'd model hyena using the perk described above.

Where'd you get UD requiring extra eating time from? There isn't anything
about that in Basic Set. So far as I know, the only thing that makes you take more time to eat is the Slow Eater disadvantage, since, as I understand it, Increased Consumption increases the quantity of food and/or frequency of eating, but you still consume what you need in the same amount of time per day.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

I'm not sure about the "which consume their prey whole" bit - snakes consume their prey whole, yet are notoriously picky eaters.

True. Since CIS is necessarily "generic" it can't cover all the details of certain animals' specialized diets.

Animals which can only eat certain sorts of prey and get sick otherwise probably don't have CIS, since their nutritional requirements are just as restrictive as those of a normal human, at least regarding the nutritional density of their food.

However, they might have Resistance to whatever diseases, parasites, and/or poisons were on whatever they eat.

An animal which eats a specialized diet, but which has the ability to deal with toxins found in whatever it eats, has a Feature- or Quirk-level Immunity to Poison. For example, birds which eat just certain sorts of fruits, but have the ability to ignore or deal with toxins found in those fruits, just have a Feature.

Originally Posted by lwcamp

You've also got things like Lämmergeiers, which pretty much only eat bones. These wouldn't qualify for CIS, I imagine, but show that bones do have enough nutritional value to sustain large, active, warm-blooded animals.

Bone marrow is tremendously rich in fats, proteins, and certain nutrients. If you can only eat fresh bones, that would probably count as a Restricted Diet, with levels of Resistance (Food-borne Disease/Parasites) to model the animal's ability to deal with pathogens.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Cowrie

Where'd you get UD requiring extra eating time from?

You are correct. For some reason, I was thinking of the Slow Eater disad. I also made the mistake of assuming that Universal Digestion was a limitation on Reduced Consumption rather than being its own disadvantage.

Arguably, CIS should have been a limited form of UD rather than a limited form of Reduced Consumption.

If you buy Reduced Consumption (Limitation: CIS), you get an advantage worth 1-4 points, which works nicely with UD being priced at 5 points.

Generically, assume that each level of CIS/UD allows you to eat food that's 20% less expensive and ~15% less nutritious/calorie dense.

UD represents the full version of the advantage and allows you to "eat for free" as long as you can find harmless organic material which has at least some vitamins, minerals, and caloric potential in it, such as topsoil or compost.