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Old 04-12-2018, 09:28 PM   #11
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

I remember someone (may or may not have been Kromm) offering the following solution to 'stress-immune' characters always enjoying the +4 to tasks under stressless circumstances:
  • Buy +4 IQ and DX.
  • Take a Quirk that you can't enjoy the routine circumstance bonus.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

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Originally Posted by JazzJedi View Post
A
But certainly, robots would not experience stress .
Yeah they would in a lot of cases because the "stress" described in the rules is not just a matter of getting rattled (which honestly isn't such a big deal for the nearly unshakeable default GURPS characters) but also a matter of correctly filtering confusing environmental input. And a dumb robot who couldn't feel nerves would suuuuck at that.

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A lot of money is spent on research and training in stress response in athletes.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

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As I pointed out, not all creatures have similar stress responses. What about robots, or aliens with no stress response whatsoever. Would they get +4 to all skills whose base skill level is one that is for "under stress" application?
You're right. Not all creatures have similar stress responses. And your robot example is a good one.

I would still give him (or it) the +4 bonus for non stressfull situation because non stressfull situation also generally means that you can take all the time you want to perform the task: verify that everything is correct, every parameter, and so on. So, it deserves a bonus.

But that interesting thread also make me think about one thing: stress can hinder, right, but it can also give wings. Adrenalin in a life or death situation often allow you to do things that you wouldn't be able to do without it. So, how to take that into account in your house rule?

To my mind, all those factors, which sometimes contradict themselves, are already taken into account by the rules:

1) The dice roll: that is precisely because your performance is not always the same that you roll dice.

2) Advantages and disadvantages: people who are usually hindered by stress have a disadvantage (combat paralysis, shyness ...) while people who are usually helped by stress have an advantage (daredevil, combat reflexes ...).
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:08 AM   #14
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You're right. Not all creatures have similar stress responses. And your robot example is a good one.

I would still give him (or it) the +4 bonus for non stressfull situation because non stressfull situation also generally means that you can take all the time you want to perform the task: verify that everything is correct, every parameter, and so on. So, it deserves a bonus.

But that interesting thread also make me think about one thing: stress can hinder, right, but it can also give wings. Adrenalin in a life or death situation often allow you to do things that you wouldn't be able to do without it. So, how to take that into account in your house rule?

To my mind, all those factors, which sometimes contradict themselves, are already taken into account by the rules:

1) The dice roll: that is precisely because your performance is not always the same that you roll dice.

2) Advantages and disadvantages: people who are usually hindered by stress have a disadvantage (combat paralysis, shyness ...) while people who are usually helped by stress have an advantage (daredevil, combat reflexes ...).
Great points. The adrenalin factor is huge for sure - but then why the +4 bonus in "mundane situations" if adrenalin cancels out the stress of a "0" success modifier? I guess my problem is that I dislike the default assumption being such a big modifier. +4 is more than a whole standard deviation on 3 dice. With the RAW, adrenalin isn't a factor at all is it? I think that the 3d roll in combat is more than sufficient to handle adrenaline and stress, and that mundane use shouldn't get a +4 bonus for most applications of skills. But then, a skill level of 10-12 is not so good is it?

And +4 does not assume taking more time to verify everything. Time modifiers are separate, and should be. Most people can work quicker when not under stress, not faster under stress. Granted, doing things quickly can cause stress, if speed is demanded such as in combat, but then that should be noted as a separate modifier, shouldn't it?

I've been gaming GURPS for almost 30 years, and this has been a recurring argument amongst my group. Instead of giving out +4, our solution has been to use a "take 10" instead of roll the dice in non-stressful situations, like D&D 3rd edition, instead of the +4 bonus. This works a little better IMO. I've also experimented with any result of the roll more than 10 counts as 10 in non-stressful situations, except on a roll of 17-18 which is still an automatic failure (but not critical failure). This also works okay too, but is not perfectly satisfactory.

Last edited by JazzJedi; 04-13-2018 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

I don't think that +4 is too much. Of course, it can sound too much, since we are playing with 3d6 ... But, in the table of Task Difficulty Modifiers, it just corresponds to an "Easy" task. Furthermore, in a situation as stressful as combat for life or death, it just is the same modifier than giving up defenses to get a better attack (All out Attack is +4 too).

I also do agree with you, there are separate modifiers for taking more time. But these modifiers are intended to be used under stress. You have more time, but the situation remains stressful. While a situation which is not stressful cannot have a time limit. As soon as there is a time limit, stress begins: will I succeed in time?

So, to my mind, +4 remains a good modifier for stacking all those little edges in only one modifier: no limited time, nobody to bother you, nobody to act against you, no fear of loosing anything, and so on. That's easy: a net +4.

Sure, other games handle that differently. Taking 10, for instance, is one way to do it. But it's not better. As soon as someone who has a skill under 10, he will always fail. He would better always act under stress! Which is unrealistic, isn't it? Amateurs or rookies have more chance to succeed without stress than with stress ...
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

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Originally Posted by JazzJedi View Post
Instead of giving out +4, our solution has been to use a "take 10" instead of roll the dice in non-stressful situations, like D&D 3rd edition, instead of the +4 bonus.
I've also brought in a house-rule to emulate "Take 10" and "Take 20" from That Other Game (TM), but I use "Take 12" and "Take 6", respectively.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
I don't think that +4 is too much. Of course, it can sound too much, since we are playing with 3d6 ... But, in the table of Task Difficulty Modifiers, it just corresponds to an "Easy" task. Furthermore, in a situation as stressful as combat for life or death, it just is the same modifier than giving up defenses to get a better attack (All out Attack is +4 too).

I also do agree with you, there are separate modifiers for taking more time. But these modifiers are intended to be used under stress. You have more time, but the situation remains stressful. While a situation which is not stressful cannot have a time limit. As soon as there is a time limit, stress begins: will I succeed in time?

So, to my mind, +4 remains a good modifier for stacking all those little edges in only one modifier: no limited time, nobody to bother you, nobody to act against you, no fear of loosing anything, and so on. That's easy: a net +4.

Sure, other games handle that differently. Taking 10, for instance, is one way to do it. But it's not better. As soon as someone who has a skill under 10, he will always fail. He would better always act under stress! Which is unrealistic, isn't it? Amateurs or rookies have more chance to succeed without stress than with stress ...
With the Take 10 rule and skills below 10, I ruled that the default assumption was that the character took extra time, enough of it to raise their skill to 10. Otherwise, they had to roll normally.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

Realistically, the 'stress' modifier is there so controlled conditions results can be replicated, and should probably be renamed. Yes, some of it is adrenaline and similar results that are actually definable as stress, but most of it is just trying to do things in an average real-world situation rather than an artificial situation with low distractions, superior lighting and visibility, etc.
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Stress and Success Modifiers

This has been discussed in the context of shooting guns in this thread. The relevant points begin around post #29. But the thread as a whole is interesting.
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Old 04-14-2018, 01:19 AM   #20
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With the Take 10 rule and skills below 10, I ruled that the default assumption was that the character took extra time, enough of it to raise their skill to 10. Otherwise, they had to roll normally.
Like that, it perfectly works, indeed. Very good idea.
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