Bamboopunk

mhd · 01-31-2018, 07:08 AM

Are there any useful resources for situations when the theoretical TL doesn't match the practical, i.e. you don't have the resources for higher technology, but the knowledge for it, with the result being more than the limit set by the "resource TL"?

This mostly means a mineral-poor environment and trying your best to "uplift" the TL with what basically amounts to stone age tools and building material.
Engineering, arms & armor, medicine & pharmacy etc.

I'm looking for anything that's at least slightly more believable than Swiss Family Robinson/Gilligan's Island/Flintstones. Pyramid articles, old or new books, tales of explorers, minor personal knowledge etc.

Riverworld 3E has this issue, but the treatment is a bit sparse.

johndallman · 01-31-2018, 07:13 AM

There's a bit of this in Vernor Vinge's SF novel A Fire Upon The Deep, but the uplifters are TL12+ and the upliftees TL3-ish, so there's more of a tech base than you seem to be after.

AlexanderHowl · 01-31-2018, 07:17 AM

The problem is that the majority of our tools (and tools to build the tools) to use organics and silicates are created from metals, so you would have to replace the tools at every level. I am not saying that it would be impossible, just very, very difficult because you are not reinventing existing technology, you are creating a new technological architecture. That being said, you could probably make up to a TL4 society without metals without that much effort, it is everything TL5+ that becomes difficult (ceramic pipes without metal tools are quite feasible, ceramic boilers without metal tools are a different story).

ericthered · 01-31-2018, 07:50 AM

Its worth noting that quite often your wreck will contain lots of handy things you can use or re-purpose. A small collection of tools, some superior building materials, sheet metal, and so forth.

mhd · 01-31-2018, 08:22 AM

"What shape shall we give our Holy Lump of Metal this month? Plowshare, harpoon tip or bag o' nails?"

Note that I'm not too keen on uplifting TL in general, small feats of high tech ("Gorn gun") are on the menu, too, as that's what's a party of adventurers is likely to do...

AlexanderHowl · 01-31-2018, 08:27 AM

I thought the OP was talking about a group that was stranded, not a group from a wrecked spaceship. With a wrecked SM+10 spaceship, a group could easily maintain a TL4 civilization (with higher TL equipment that cannot be replaced) without any effort (TL5+ requires millions of people to maintain). They could even use their tools to create the non-metallic technology of their descendants.

temp · 01-31-2018, 09:03 AM

Not sure if it's what you are looking for but the first thought that came to mind was SM Stirling, The Peshawar Lancers ...

Ulzgoroth · 01-31-2018, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temp

Not sure if it's what you are looking for but the first thought that came to mind was SM Stirling, The Peshawar Lancers ...

The Peshawar Lancers seems totally irrelevant? Island in the Sea of Time is a lot closer, though it's got a lot more carried-over equipment and access to resources than the 'bamboopunk' title suggests to me.

mhd · 01-31-2018, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I thought the OP was talking about a group that was stranded, not a group from a wrecked spaceship.

My specific background involves the Supersized Hadron Collider, time folding in on itself and dinosaurs, which is a bit too specific.

I was thinking about bits and pieces of TL 7/8 knowledge and most of the time a pretty minimal amount of iron/bronze. No intrepid astronaut superscientists or hundreds of tons of space age wreckage...

Stone Dog · 01-31-2018, 01:52 PM

Where does the punk part fit in here? Is there a "The Man" trying to keep new technology down?

01-31-2018, 07:08 AM	#1
mhd Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls	Bamboopunk Are there any useful resources for situations when the theoretical TL doesn't match the practical, i.e. you don't have the resources for higher technology, but the knowledge for it, with the result being more than the limit set by the "resource TL"? This mostly means a mineral-poor environment and trying your best to "uplift" the TL with what basically amounts to stone age tools and building material. Engineering, arms & armor, medicine & pharmacy etc. I'm looking for anything that's at least slightly more believable than Swiss Family Robinson/Gilligan's Island/Flintstones. Pyramid articles, old or new books, tales of explorers, minor personal knowledge etc. Riverworld 3E has this issue, but the treatment is a bit sparse.

01-31-2018, 07:13 AM	#2
johndallman Night Watchman Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cambridge, UK	Re: Bamboopunk There's a bit of this in Vernor Vinge's SF novel A Fire Upon The Deep, but the uplifters are TL12+ and the upliftees TL3-ish, so there's more of a tech base than you seem to be after. __________________ The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques.

01-31-2018, 07:17 AM	#3
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Bamboopunk The problem is that the majority of our tools (and tools to build the tools) to use organics and silicates are created from metals, so you would have to replace the tools at every level. I am not saying that it would be impossible, just very, very difficult because you are not reinventing existing technology, you are creating a new technological architecture. That being said, you could probably make up to a TL4 society without metals without that much effort, it is everything TL5+ that becomes difficult (ceramic pipes without metal tools are quite feasible, ceramic boilers without metal tools are a different story).

01-31-2018, 07:50 AM	#4
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	Re: Bamboopunk Its worth noting that quite often your wreck will contain lots of handy things you can use or re-purpose. A small collection of tools, some superior building materials, sheet metal, and so forth. __________________ Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!

01-31-2018, 08:22 AM	#5
mhd Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls	Re: Bamboopunk "What shape shall we give our Holy Lump of Metal this month? Plowshare, harpoon tip or bag o' nails?" Note that I'm not too keen on uplifting TL in general, small feats of high tech ("Gorn gun") are on the menu, too, as that's what's a party of adventurers is likely to do...

01-31-2018, 08:27 AM	#6
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Bamboopunk I thought the OP was talking about a group that was stranded, not a group from a wrecked spaceship. With a wrecked SM+10 spaceship, a group could easily maintain a TL4 civilization (with higher TL equipment that cannot be replaced) without any effort (TL5+ requires millions of people to maintain). They could even use their tools to create the non-metallic technology of their descendants.

01-31-2018, 09:03 AM	#7
temp Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Bamboopunk Not sure if it's what you are looking for but the first thought that came to mind was SM Stirling, The Peshawar Lancers ...

01-31-2018, 01:52 PM	#10
Stone Dog Join Date: Feb 2008	Re: Bamboopunk Where does the punk part fit in here? Is there a "The Man" trying to keep new technology down?