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Old 02-20-2018, 05:07 PM   #11
Refplace
 
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post

anyway, do you mind explain me what the modular ability used for??
Thank you
Powers like that are typically on for a minute.

The original op waned to be able to boost any attribute.
So drain X then boost DX, or ST for ST, IQ for IQ, etc.
That requires four Afflictions which MA is used to buy them cheaper than 4 full cost Afflictions.
However you could do it as Alternate Enhancements so Affliction IQ (IQ, DX, ST, HT; +280%) ie +200% +40% +20% +20% to boost any one of those attributes. Cost 38 points a level
Or using Alternate Abilities
Affliction IQ (IQ, +200%) [30]
Affliction IQ (DX, +200%) [6]
Affliction IQ (ST, +100%) [4]
Affliction IQ (HT, +100%) [4]
Total 44 points per level.
Exact cost may vary as other modifers mixed in but I think all those are better than an MA build, though not done the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Thanks; I failed to notice that.
Your welcome, I didnt want a bunch of replies coming in for it as opposed to the new guy asking questions.
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
However you could do it as Alternate Enhancements so Affliction IQ (IQ, DX, ST, HT; +280%) ie +200% +40% +20% +20% to boost any one of those attributes. Cost 38 points a level
Or using Alternate Abilities
Affliction IQ (IQ, +200%) [30]
Affliction IQ (DX, +200%) [6]
Affliction IQ (ST, +100%) [4]
Affliction IQ (HT, +100%) [4]
Total 44 points per level.
Note that this build would only give you one level of the attributes in question, no matter how much you drained. To add an arbitrarily-high level of attribute, you've got to add Cumulative to the Afflictions. Put a Link on them to Leech, and make sure the levels of added attribute are equal to your level of Leech if you want the attributes gained to match the attributes lost by the target, and you've got a reasonably-accurate build, I'd say.
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Thanks; I failed to notice that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Note that this build would only give you one level of the attributes in question, no matter how much you drained. To add an arbitrarily-high level of attribute, you've got to add Cumulative to the Afflictions. Put a Link on them to Leech, and make sure the levels of added attribute are equal to your level of Leech if you want the attributes gained to match the attributes lost by the target, and you've got a reasonably-accurate build, I'd say.
Right, I just wanted a simple build to answer the question on why MA was used and to show some alternatives.
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Note that this build would only give you one level of the attributes in question, no matter how much you drained. To add an arbitrarily-high level of attribute, you've got to add Cumulative to the Afflictions. Put a Link on them to Leech, and make sure the levels of added attribute are equal to your level of Leech if you want the attributes gained to match the attributes lost by the target, and you've got a reasonably-accurate build, I'd say.
I am missing the part where he has to use cumulative (and btw, what enhance is this??)

i m assuming that these afflictions are used to give the attributes to other people, like an advantage perhaps? In this case the cost of single Attribute shouldnt be 10 for ST and HT and 20 for IQ and DX??
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

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Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
I am missing the part where he has to use cumulative (and btw, what enhance is this??)

i m assuming that these afflictions are used to give the attributes to other people, like an advantage perhaps? In this case the cost of single Attribute shouldnt be 10 for ST and HT and 20 for IQ and DX??
Affliction grants+1 IQ for a +200% enhancement (20 points) but needs +400% to grant +2 IQ (40 points). Cumulative is a work around where you can layer it so they stack. Trouble is that gets abusive very fast so not everyone allows it.
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Old 02-21-2018, 03:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

Thank you.. it s more clear now :D

edit: one more thing, you have wrote, a couple of answers above, that powers like these usaually have 1 minute of duration. Were you referring at the duration of the attribute gained?

because, buying ST/DX/IQ/HT/whatever with accessibility (special recharge) limitation, by default, has an endless duration.
I'd apply maximum duration limitation to be honest, but something tells me that -75% (for less than 30 secs) and 5 mins of recharge is not the right answer
Or just the attribute buff lenghts for 1 minute??

Last edited by Devil_Dante; 02-21-2018 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

my final design are 2 different way to steal attribute, the first one with the leech attack, the second one with the affliction, but seems quite odd to me the difference in cost (At least if i didn t wrong to create them):

1)ST 5 [10/lvl] (Accessibility, only leech, -70%) [15]

Leech 3 (Ranged, +40%; Malediction 2, +150%; Reliable 5, +25%; Accelerated healing, +25%; Steal ST, +100%) TOTAL = +240% (85+13,6/lvl) [126]

2)ST 5 [10/lvl] (Accessibility, only leech, -70%; link, +10%) TOTAL = -60% [20]

Affliction attribute penalty 2 [10/lvl] (malediction 2, +150%; ST – 5, +25%; Reliable 4, +20%; Advantage (Regeneration, extreme), +150%, Only heal 5 HP, -25%; Reduce duration 1/60, -35%; Trigger, after damage delt, illegal, -15%) Total = +270% [74]

To this one, i just add the regeneration advantage that only last for one second and triggers when you have delt ST penalty, healing only 5 HP instead of 10 (assuming -25% limitation)

Now, the cost difference is huge. I'm assuming that without cumulative, you can't use the attack on the same opponent every turn, dealing 5 ST damage per turn.

My last question is about the attribute stealing part: as written, every time i leech someone, i gain 5 strenght, like a reserve i can use, with 1 min duration i suppose
Is it right?


Sorry for high rateo of questions. You are very kind

Last edited by Devil_Dante; 02-21-2018 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
edit: one more thing, you have wrote, a couple of answers above, that powers like these usaually have 1 minute of duration. Were you referring at the duration of the attribute gained?
Yes. If you have an advantage (which includes attributes, here) that normally has an always-on duration, but you put any limitations on it that require activation (like Trigger, or Requires Ready), that cost you resources (Like Costs Fatigue), or that impose a duration (like Reduced Duration or Maximum Duration), it turns the advantage into a switchable one automatically, with a default duration of 10 seconds (see "Range, Area, and Duration for Advantages", p. B101). This prevents abuses like giving yourself a normally always-on advantage, getting it cheaper with a limitation that imposes a cost or something, and then saying "I only pay the cost once, and just keep it on forever".

Refplace was probably quoting the 1 minute figure because a lot of modifiers that change advantages into ones with duration actually specify one minute instead of 10 seconds - the specific overrides the general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
my final design are 2 different way to steal attribute, the first one with the leech attack, the second one with the affliction, but seems quite odd to me the difference in cost (At least if i didn t wrong to create them):

1)ST 5 [10/lvl] (Accessibility, only leech, -70%) [15]

Leech 3 (Ranged, +40%; Malediction 2, +150%; Reliable 5, +25%; Accelerated healing, +25%; Steal ST, +100%) TOTAL = +240% (85+13,6/lvl) [126]
This -70% limitation on the ST is way too high, I feel. While it's not easy to leech ST off someone, it's definitely not so hard as to justify a -70% limitation, which is kind of huge. If we're comparing Accessibility, that would be the limitation level for something that only worked on 1 out of 100 million people.

I think the best limitation to model what you want here is Trigger (p. B115). Trigger is the all-purpose limitation for when activating your ability requires some other substance or condition, and "stolen ST" fits pretty well. I'd call that a Common condition, so -20%, but multiplied by 1.5 because stealing ST is almost certainly illegal, so your limitation value would be -30%. If your levels of Leech don't match your levels in the attribute (so you'd need to Leech more than once to gain the full bonus), I'd allow an Accessibility on the higher attribute levels too, at -10% for levels it would take one extra leech use to gain, -20% for two, and so forth.

Also, your math is off on the Leech modifiers. It should be +340%, not +240%.

So, your final build would look something like this:

Leech 3 (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Malediction 2, +150%; Ranged, +40%; Reliable 5, +25%; Steal ST, +100%) [150] + ST 5 (Trigger, Stolen ST, -30%) [35]

For a final total of 185 points.

Or, if you wanted the build to require stealing 5 ST from someone before gaining the full ST 5:

Leech 3 (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Malediction 2, +150%; Ranged, +40%; Reliable 5, +25%; Steal ST, +100%) [150] + ST 3 (Trigger, Stolen ST, -30%) [21] + ST 2 (Accessibility, only once ST 5 has been stolen with Leech, -10%; Trigger, Stolen ST, -30%) [12]

For a final total of 183 points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante
2)ST 5 [10/lvl] (Accessibility, only leech, -70%; link, +10%) TOTAL = -60% [20]

Affliction attribute penalty 2 [10/lvl] (malediction 2, +150%; ST – 5, +25%; Reliable 4, +20%; Advantage (Regeneration, extreme), +150%, Only heal 5 HP, -25%; Reduce duration 1/60, -35%; Trigger, after damage delt, illegal, -15%) Total = +270% [74]
I think you've misunderstood what Refplace and I were talking about when we mentioned Affliction. The intent was not to replace the Leech, it was to use Affliction in combination with Leech, using the Affliction to add stats to the drainer. It would look something like this:

Leech 3 (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Link, Affliction, -10%; Malediction 2, +150%; Ranged, +40%; Reliable 5, +25%; Steal ST, +100%) [147] + Affliction (Accessibility, only on yourself, -20%; Advantage, ST +3, +300%; Cumulative, +400%; Link, Leech, -10%) [77]

This is more expensive than the Leech + modified Attribute build above, of course, but the key thing is that it's unlimited. The first build means you can only gain 5 ST, and then you're done, no matter how much you Leech. With this build, you gain +3 ST every time you use Leech, with no actual cap. It wears off once the Affliction does, but that can still last quite a while, at least in combat terms. With the build above, you will need to make an HT roll every time for the Affliction, and only get the bonus attribute on a success, for minutes equal to the margin of success. That's using the "Beneficial Afflictions" rules, Powers p. 40.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

wow!! really thanks! This community is so kind!!

a)So, the ST gained lasts for 10 seconds by default

b)the build number 1 was good then (except for the math.. i lost 100%, my bad). About the -70% limitation to the ST pool, i v red it somewhere and i used it.. i had some thoughts about it, -30% is better, nice call

c)the build number 2, came out from this thread here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=109062

the author created the "leech effect" with the affliction "toxic", so i tried to do the same using the "attribute penalty" instead of the damage, to emulate the "steal attribute leech effect". So, the affliction is built in two parts: the first one deal ST damage to my opponent, the second one grants me the regeneration (5 hp for one second). In this way i have emulated the leech part. And, to emulate the ST gained, i still have the ST pool with the limitation, as for the first build.
I was wondered about the cost, because, to me, this second build creates the same effect of the first one, but with a very cheaper cost.
In this build, i assume that you can deal only 5 ST damage, whithout using cumulative. Where the first build is already "cumulative".
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: [Powers] Stealing Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
a)So, the ST gained lasts for 10 seconds by default
No, sorry, I should have clarified that - Trigger is one of the limitations that has its own default duration (1 minute), so that's the duration of the attribute boost in the first build. In the second, as I said, it lasts for Affliction's usual duration with a beneficial effect, minutes equal to the margin of success on the HT roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante
b)the build number 1 was good then
It was good, if you want your ST to go up by 5 points and that's all, no matter how much you Leech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante
c)the build number 2, came out from this thread here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=109062

the author created the "leech effect" with the affliction "toxic",
I think you're misreading that build - it doesn't mention Affliction at all, it's using Toxic Innate Attack, which is a completely different advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante
In this build, i assume that you can deal only 5 ST damage, whithout using cumulative. Where the first build is already "cumulative".
Neither of the builds you presented initially are cumulative, I'm afraid. They both rely on the limited attribute construct, which, no matter how you modify it, will not stack with itself. If you buy ST +5, you can get ST 5 higher than your base ST, but you can't keep adding that on again and again, you haven't paid for that. That's why Refplace and I are suggesting the Affliction build, because that, as long as you have Cumulative on it, can keep adding to your ST indefinitely.
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