Wrong runes in Gurps Magic?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Well, to be honest, Ralph Blum is the best source on ancient runic divination because he invented it. There's pretty much zero evidence for runes being used like that before Blum published his book in 1982.

Yeah, that. Almost all the specific associations of scripts with magical meanings or powers are early modern or later - though the Hebrew numerology stuff they're probably based on seems to have late medieval roots that at least slightly predate Zohar. Nobody claiming a table of correspondences as genuinely historical should be taken very seriously. I'm doubtful there is evidence even for the *astrological* stuff before the Renaissance - Western Esotericism is a fairly new strand of religion, almost all of it invented since 1400.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by maximara

I agree. GURPS 4e Magic has always felt like a rush job not measuring up to even its 3e version.

When you get right down to it Magic is more a spell list book then anything else which is why IMHO it would have been better if Fantasy and Thaumaturgy had come out first so more work could have been put into Magic and ideas form those book integrated into it.

Both of those books would have to be written vastly differently - much if not most of Thaumatology is completely dependent on reference to Magic.

In any case, 'hasty' is explanatory as well as critical, I'm given to understand. They needed that spell list out ASAP to support fantasy games.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Both of those books would have to be written vastly differently - much if not most of Thaumatology is completely dependent on reference to Magic.

References that are so vague that they could just as easily refer to 3e Magic as 4e. Heck, many 4e books refer back to 3e books that to date have never gotten an update even though in some cases thanks to changes done in 4e would make the setting work a lot better (GURPS Classic Castle Falkenstein case in point) In some cases, as with GURPS Technomancer, the changes have a profound effect on the setting; sure Voodoo Ritual Magic doesn't exist but what of Spirits Ritual Magic or Magery (Ritual Magic)?

Yes, there was Authentic Thaumaturgy (2005) but it might as well not exist as far 4e Magic was concerned. That it wasn't a GURPS book likely didn't help matter even Authentic Thaumaturgy could be viewed as a proto-Thaumatology.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

In any case, 'hasty' is explanatory as well as critical, I'm given to understand. They needed that spell list out ASAP to support fantasy games.

If GURPS 4e didn't have any spell list then that would have made sense but the 4e Basic set had a list of 93 spells (pg 242-253) to work with. And as mentioned before if you wanted more there were GURPS 3e Magic and GURPS Grimoire.

Other then consolidating 3e Magic, Grimoire, and some elements in the Compendiums and cleaning up the mess Ritual magic was (three different and not entirely comparable systems) 4e Magic really didn't do much and had clear evidence that it was rushed out the door way to fast.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by maximara

References that are so vague that they could just as easily refer to 3e Magic as 4e. Heck, many 4e books refer back to 3e books that to date have never gotten an update even though in some cases thanks to changes done in 4e would make the setting work a lot better (GURPS Classic Castle Falkenstein case in point) In some cases, as with GURPS Technomancer, the changes have a profound effect on the setting; sure Voodoo Ritual Magic doesn't exist but what of Spirits Ritual Magic or Magery (Ritual Magic)?

I don't think there are any 4e books that are dependent on 3e books except the 'setting update' books (THS:Changing Times and RoS:Will to Live being the ones I'm aware of).

Originally Posted by maximara

If GURPS 4e didn't have any spell list then that would have made sense but the 4e Basic set had a list of 93 spells (pg 242-253) to work with. And as mentioned before if you wanted more there were GURPS 3e Magic and GURPS Grimoire.

3e spellbooks are not things 4e had.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I don't think there are any 4e books that are dependent on 3e books except the 'setting update' books (THS:Changing Times and RoS:Will to Live being the ones I'm aware of).

3e spellbooks are not things 4e had.

Sure they are. GURPS Technomancer is a 3e book with an expanded spell list that is referenced by at least two 4e books one of which was the Basic Set itself.

In fact until updates are made in many cases 3e books are all 4e can refer back to.