06-05-2019, 03:40 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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4th WWII Vehicle conversion
I'm drooling over the awesome tanks and vehicles in 3rd WWII A World Ablaze, and want to use them in 4th.
Primary goal is to take any (at least WWII at this point) vehicle/aircraft/ship from 3rd and convert the stats to 4th, which means I'm gunning for ST/HP, Hnd/SR, HT, Acceleration, Top Speed, SM, Armor (per facing) and weapons. I tried to compare the stuff I could find in HT, namely Panzer IV, Sherman, Mustang, Jeep, and 2 1/2 ton truck, as well as improvise the low TL heavy motorcycle from basic and the APC (which kinda had equivalents in WWII).
Disclaimer: I don't know much about 3rd in general, and I have no idea how PD works. Nor did I plow all the details with sloping armor, to hit bonuses from tank chassis, or really much of the rule related stuff in 3rd. Also, the HPs for 3rd were about 10 times higher whereas the DR were maybe 30% higher, and weapons seemed to my untrained eye of roughly the same size, so does PD have that great impact or are there other explanations for this difference? |
06-05-2019, 05:02 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: near Houston
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
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The to-hit bonuses for tank chassis are just bonuses for target size.
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A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope GURPS 3e stuff: http://copeab.tripod.com |
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06-05-2019, 05:52 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
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As for DR differences, it's probably a matter of how the authors treated sloping and what a few other assumptions. Bullets in 3e behave much like they do in 3e, but in 4e the damage multipliers for bullet size were codified. Thus even though in 3e they are given as doing crush damage, it's effectively the same as in 4e, so just take the damage as being pi or pi+ or whatever would be appropriate in 4e, with the same number of dice and penetration modifiers as it's given in the 3e source. This, BTW, gives a check on the DR levels - check the 3e WWII stats for the Pz.IV and M4 tank guns against the 4e versions.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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06-05-2019, 06:44 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
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Anywhere else in Gurps (3e or 4e) 25mm of Rolled Homogenous Alloy or RHA equals DR 70 and no conversion is neccesary. Don't worry about PD. It has vanished from Gurps and no note of its' passing need be taken. It's just gone.
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Fred Brackin |
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06-05-2019, 08:19 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
WWII used DR84/inch, did it not? That would mean converting to 4e would require multiplying by x0.83 to thereabouts.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
06-05-2019, 11:01 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: near Houston
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
DR 70/inch for cheap armor, DR 82/inch for standard, DR 98/inch for expensive and DR 122/inch for advanced (p.142, box).
__________________
A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope GURPS 3e stuff: http://copeab.tripod.com |
06-06-2019, 09:37 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
In other iterations of Gurps the Expensive is the DR 70 RHA, the Standard is probably Mild Steel at c. DR 50 and the Cheap is some sort of iron that could be produced at TL4.
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Fred Brackin |
06-08-2019, 04:55 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
Great, thanks for all the input!!
For to hit, I'll use the rules for calculating SM from the SSR table, and base the location penalties on that (large or small turrets, caterpillar tracks, wings etc already exist). Though I have a few other follow-ups:
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06-08-2019, 09:58 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
Just to help you interpret 3e stats, armor before 4e had both DR and a "Passive Defense" rating. PD supposedly reflects the possibility that your armor could just turn/deflect/bounce a blow, as opposed to just not get penetrated by a solid, direct hit (which is DR). It was added to Active Defense/2. Note that this gives you a chance to defend even if you don't have an AD. PDs in 3e for low-tech humanoid armor were in the 2-4 range, with a max of (IIRC) 7 for plate armor.
The "3" in the 4e formula for defense (3 + skill / 2 + DB) is a vestige of PD, effectively declaring that all armor always has PD 3. Defenses would be pretty low without that +3, and of course the mechanics had been designed assuming there was some PD involved. You can also see echoes in the Magic armor enchantment spells. "Fortify" and "Deflect" were +DR and +PD; without PD, Deflect turned into +DB (mechanically similar, but the name shows the old PD flavor rather than the "massive shield block" image of DB). |
06-08-2019, 10:58 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: 4th WWII Vehicle conversion
My recollection, which seems to be a bit dodgy just now, is that mild steel came out at DR56 (80% of RHA's DR).
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
Tags |
vehicles 4th, vehicles conversion, wwii |
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