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Old 03-25-2013, 05:59 AM   #31
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
When I think Charisma 4, I think Alexander of Macedon.
You have a point, Alexander being the real Gröfaz (Greatest Military Leader of All Time). Even Hannibal said so, though you could argue for a couple of generals who have appeared since then. And Sergeant Elvis Presley, of course. Heck, he had a higher military rank than Hitler!

On the other hand, in some former edition of GURPS I think there was something about Charisma 4 being for founders of new religions. And Hitler did found a secular religion, even if it did last for a lot less than a thousand years.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:12 AM   #32
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Originally Posted by trans View Post
You have a point, Alexander being the real Gröfaz (Greatest Military Leader of All Time). Even Hannibal said so, though you could argue for a couple of generals who have appeared since then. And Sergeant Elvis Presley, of course. Heck, he had a higher military rank than Hitler!

On the other hand, in some former edition of GURPS I think there was something about Charisma 4 being for founders of new religions. And Hitler did found a secular religion, even if it did last for a lot less than a thousand years.
Scale of Charisma:

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From GURPS Who’s Who 1&2 and Age of Napoleon:
Charisma


  • +1: Aaron Burr Jr., Albert Einstein, Attila the Hun, Captain James Cook, Catherine di Medici, Chinggis Khan (“Genghis Khan”), Colquhoun Grant, Ernest Hemingway, Erwin Rommel, Eugene de Beauharnais, George Armstrong Custer, Germaine de Stael, Hannibal, Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, John Wesly Hardin, Julius Caesar, Leif Eriksson, Matteo Ricci, Oda Nobunga, Pierre-Andre Suffren, Richard III, Richard E.Byrd, Samuel de Champlain, Sir Richard Burton, Sir Winston Chuchill, Suleyman (Suleiman) the Magnificent, William Shakespeare.
  • +2: Alexius I (Alexius Comnenus), Bartholomew Roberts, Catherine the Great, Charles “Lucky” Luciano, Cheng Shih, Christopher Columbus, Cyrus the Great, Elizabeth I, George Washington, Granuaile (Grace O’Malley), Harriet Tubman, Harry Houdini, Justinian I, King David Ben-jesse, Le Comte de Saint-Germaine, Li Po, Lola Montez, Lord Byron, Marco Polo, Maximilien Robespierre, Michel Ney, Nebuchadrezzar II (Nabu-kudurri-usur), Ninon de Lanclos, Nzinga, Robert Clive (Clive of India), Stephen Decatur, St. Augustine of Hippo, Shield Jaguar Lord (“Itsin Balam Ahau”), William Pitt the Younger.
  • +3: Arthur Wellesley (Duke of Wellington), Boudica, Cleopatra, Constantine the Great, Horatio Nelson, Napoleon Bonoparte, Rodrigo Diaz (El Cid), Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt
  • +4: Alexander the Great, Hernan Cortes,
  • +5: Joan of Arc
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:49 AM   #33
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Can't someone with Unfazeable pretend to have emotions, via the Acting skill?
Yes, when it suits them. I assume that if letting go of your emotions and throwing a tantrum is a strategic manuver you use, but never let use you, you could have Unfazeable (which is the advantage of never losing emotional control Against Your Will) and throw tantrums.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:54 AM   #34
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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I don't like being in the position of being an apologist for Hitler, but Will was really his defining feature, misguided though it was. Charisma too, of course. What other human would you say had more Will? Maybe some serious military heroes, religious fanatics or top athletes. But Hitler had a claim to belonging to the first two of these categories, anyway.
Saying "Hitler had will" is not being an apologist for Hitler. It would have been nice if he had had a bit less will and a good deal more won't.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:49 AM   #35
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Yes, when it suits them. I assume that if letting go of your emotions and throwing a tantrum is a strategic manuver you use, but never let use you, you could have Unfazeable (which is the advantage of never losing emotional control Against Your Will) and throw tantrums.
I don't think Unfazeable "is the advantage of never losing emotional control Against Your Will", you're only immune to fear, not other emotions.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Scale of Charisma:
Where would you put my favorite, Scipio Africanus?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:20 AM   #37
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Where would you put my favorite, Scipio Africanus?
What I wrote above was from John Keegan's book of military anecdotes, Oxford Press, I think. Scipio met with Hannibal and asked him who the Best Military Leader Of All Times was. Scipio said the first was Alexander, the second was Pyrrhus, and the third was himself. Scipio asked him: "What if you had beaten me"? Hannibal said: "Then I would have been before all of them".

Last edited by trans; 03-25-2013 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Scipio -> Hannibal
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #38
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Where would you put my favorite, Scipio Africanus?
Scipio didn't depend on Charisma as much as Hannibal. He was a representative of a bureaucracy whose precise purpose was to eliminate the erratic nature of dependence on charisma in public life. However he was almost as good as Hannibal at convincing Spanish and Nubian tribal leaders that he was One Of Them. And he could make dramatic appeals to his men. He was a professional not a Charismatic leader, but he had more then enough Charisma to be useful.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #39
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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Originally Posted by trans View Post
What I wrote above was from John Keegan's book of military anecdotes, Oxford Press, I think. Scipio met with Hannibal and asked him who the Best Military Leader Of All Times was. Scipio said the first was Alexander, the second was Pyrrhus, and the third was himself. Scipio asked him: "What if you had beaten me"? Hannibal said: "Then I would have been before all of them".
I thought that was Hastings that wrote that? Or maybe my copy is different?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:48 AM   #40
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Default Re: [WWII Historians] Why did Hitler have WILL 18?

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I thought that was Hastings that wrote that? Or maybe my copy is different?
Yes, you are right, sorry.
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