05-20-2014, 03:55 AM | #51 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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Yes 40 points spent on broadsword makes you as good at broad sword as 40 points spent on lance makes you as good at lance, But does 40 points spent on Broadsword gives you more benefit in more skills that 40 points spent on lance, yes/no? So if yes, what is the overall effect in terms of overall benefit of 40 points spent on broadsword compared to 40 points spent on lance? So again what are repercussions of this vis a vis the utility cost. Utility cost meaning the amount of utility you get for a cost in points? Are there too many melee skills in abstract yes, does the system when taken into a whole give a certain amount of flexibility to reflect that these skills are often pretty interrelated, yes. If you think these two things balance out, that is a different question. But messing with default system will have an impact on it all and so does ignoring it when it comes to comparing skills. |
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05-20-2014, 04:44 AM | #52 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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05-20-2014, 05:14 AM | #53 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
Really?
You have fun with this. Or hell even if you replace cost with costed in my post, you still didn't answer the question(s). Last edited by Tomsdad; 05-20-2014 at 05:25 AM. |
05-20-2014, 05:22 AM | #54 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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05-20-2014, 05:33 AM | #55 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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Even philosophically the points I made still stand because just saying philosophically doesn't remove defaults etc from the equation. Broadsword is more efficient than lance because you get more skills at default, it has more utility for the same reason. Your points only stand if you ignore the differences in each skill's defaults and there relationship to other skills. And that's as true in play as philosophically. In effect in GURPS broadsword is philosophically as difficult to learn as Lance both are DX(avg), but while you learning Broadsword you are also learning other skills to a lesser extent. This is not true of Lance which can only defaulted from one other skill (spear) and itself can't be used to default to any other. I.e someone with spear skill can attempt a couched lance charge using their spear skill, but someone with lance can't attempt to fight with a spear (or at least knowing lance isn't a help). Last edited by Tomsdad; 05-20-2014 at 06:08 AM. |
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05-20-2014, 05:46 AM | #56 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
For the record, I am still confused over using Techniques for a Skill known at default. I will attempt to explain why one more time, as concisely as I can, because while GURPS isn't a reality simulator, when applicable you are supposed to be able to reality check situations and if the game rules deviate from them, it needs to have a good reason (like reality is less fun or overly complex).
Just going by GURPS Basic Set: Characters, there are some combat Techniques that it is ignoring reality to claim you cannot use at a "double default" and/or are lacking a straight-up DX based Default. Several Techniques are pretty general weapon uses like Feinting; it seems pretty silly to disallow using a Broadsword at default to not Feint... even more so if it isn't the DX default but from another weapon like Shortsword! There are many more examples but again, keeping it short.
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05-20-2014, 06:20 AM | #57 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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I don't really get how the distinction you are drawing between the actual effect in play and philosophy works in this case either. If a philosophy of costing is bad it should be discarded in which case there will be bigger changes than messing with defaults a bit. If the philosophy is good then changes in tune with it won't be that disruptive. Quote:
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05-20-2014, 06:28 AM | #58 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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I'm making the point that you seem to be ignoring the effects that different defaults has on different skills. When you started about skills not being utility costed, you seemed to be talking about the system as RAW not theoretical changes you might be making. |
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05-20-2014, 06:41 AM | #59 | |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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However, unless you have at least a point in the skill, you cannot improve the technique. BA 229. For example, if you have Brawling as a learned skill, then you could perhaps improve the technique "Kicking" which is at a -2 normally. Kicking is a Hard technique with a maximum equal to the Brawling skill level in this case. Though if you want to improve a lot of techniques, it's usually more efficient to improve the prerequisite skill. If the technique requires TbaM or WM then you must have one of those advantages. Does this make sense?
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05-20-2014, 07:11 AM | #60 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Re: Capping Skill Default Levels
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At some point common sense has to rule out. If a technique very clearly is something anyone who knew the skill could do, then as a GM I would likely allow it, on the other hand, if the technique in question were something highly specialized that would need special training or preparation to pull off, well maybe in that case I wouldn't allow it unless you had specifically trained the skill. The default rule of not allowing techniques unless you have a point in the skill seems reasonable enough to me. There is no rule system that can cover all of reality because reality is more nuanced and multi-faceted than a fixed rule system can ever be. At some point you just have to apply common sense. Honestly I wouldn't even want to play a rule system that modeled everything (reality) perfectly, there would be so many exceptions for edge cases I'd never be able to remember the rules. A simplistic rule system that covers 80-90% of reality is good enough for me, I can use common sense for the rest. |
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defaults, house rules |
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