Running and Engaging

[luguvalium]

I played Melee tonight for the first time in years and the following situation came up:

Abner has the initiative and runs more than half MA and ends up with with Brina in one of his front hexes. Brina hasn't moved yet. Is Brina engaged?

I would think Brina is not engaged since Abner moved more than half his MA and can not take any actions. If Abner moved half MA or less, I would think Brina is engaged. I don't find anything in the rules about this particular situation.

[zot]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

I played Melee tonight for the first time in years and the following situation came up:

Abner has the initiative and runs more than half MA and ends up with with Brina in one of his front hexes. Brina hasn't moved yet. Is Brina engaged?

I would think Brina is not engaged since Abner moved more than half his MA and can not take any actions. If Abner moved half MA or less, I would think Brina is engaged. I don't find anything in the rules about this particular situation.

Weird. That sure makes sense to me. It does remove a "chess tactic" but there's no way Abner can attack Brina this turn, so maybe it should. Maybe other folks on this board who are way more grognardian than I have more insight. I'll bet JK has an opinion on it...

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by zot

Weird. That sure makes sense to me. It does remove a "chess tactic" but there's no way Abner can attack Brina this turn, so maybe it should. Maybe other folks on this board who are way more grognardian than I have more insight. I'll bet JK has an opinion on it...

I wrote about the finer and esoteric benefits of "Engaging a Foe" on another post long ago. *Scroll Down* to the section under: On the 2nd Point for those who are interested.

JK

[MGregory]

Brutus is strolling thru the wilderness quite unaware when a lion sprints from behind (full MA) and pounces on him (since that is what lions do).

Would you house rule this as a hybrid shield rush, where the lion can (on a successful "to hit" knock Brutus to the ground and enter HTH despite having moved the full MA?

If not, would Brutus have the first attack (assuming he's strolling along at less than half his MA)?

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by MGregory

Brutus is strolling thru the wilderness quite unaware when a lion sprints from behind (full MA) and pounces on him (since that is what lions do).

Would you house rule this as a hybrid shield rush, where the lion can (on a successful "to hit" knock Brutus to the ground and enter HTH despite having moved the full MA?

If not, would Brutus have the first attack (assuming he's strolling along at less than half his MA)?

If I get to house-rule, I'd use something like the GURPS Flying Tackle rules and lion rules from GURPS Bestiary.

In TFT, I would refer you to page 15 of Advanced Melee, where it says "If the attacking figure is disengaged, this is a regular move." i.e. The lion gets to initiate HTH during movement, re-rolling any 6's.

In any case, I imagine Brutus was surprised and may not even have had his weapon out, so even if the Lion rolls a 5 and fails to enter HTH, Brutus is in trouble... only if he had a ready weapon, wasn't surprised, and hadn't lost initiative and moved first, would Brutus get a chance to turn around and attack the lion.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by MGregory

Brutus is strolling thru the wilderness quite unaware when a lion sprints from behind (full MA) and pounces on him (since that is what lions do).

Would you house rule this as a hybrid shield rush, where the lion can (on a successful "to hit" knock Brutus to the ground and enter HTH despite having moved the full MA?

If not, would Brutus have the first attack (assuming he's strolling along at less than half his MA)?

Hi MGregory,
The key thing to me is that the lion has moved its full MA. To me that means it has over extended itself and has to wait until next turn to do anything.

However, if I wanted to house rule a few things...

--- Lions may spend 2 fatigue ST (for a 2 hex creature) and sprint. Lions when they sprint get a flat +6 MA. Thus they can go a bit further and still have moved half their MA or less which lets them attempt HTH.

--- I no longer let people go into HTH during the movement phase, unless you 'dive for the legs'. If you dive for the legs, you end up prone no matter what happens, and the "1 Die HTH Defence Roll" gets a +1 modifier. In my campaign in this situation, the Lion would dive for the legs, and enter HTH during movement.

In ItL page 61, it says that lions have an MA of 12. I think that this is too low. They are ambush predators which use sudden burst of speed to hunt. (That is why I suggest giving them +6 MA for short, sudden pounces.) So the main goal of a lion is to use stealth to creep quite close, then use a sudden burst of speed to end things.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Skarg]

The MA of animals probably wants a second look, or if it stays at Lions 12, Bears 8, Wolves 12, then a designer note about why and how to play them seems in order, since otherwise these seem extremely slow compared to the actual animals compared to humans (not to mention elves and/or people with the Running talent...).

The HTH rules also of course could use some reworking, as a lion, bear, or gorilla has the same chance to get anyone else in HTH (and automatically make them fall down and drop their weapon) as does an unskilled low-ST figure.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

...
Abner has the initiative and runs more than half MA and ends up with with Brina in one of his front hexes. Brina hasn't moved yet. Is Brina engaged? ...

Hi Luguvalium, everyone.

She starts her movement in his front hex so she is engaged. On the other hand, she gets an attack and he does not, so she might not be engaged next turn, if she can hit him and knock him down.

Warm regards, Rick

[zot]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi Luguvalium, everyone.

She starts her movement in his front hex so she is engaged. On the other hand, she gets an attack and he does not, so she might not be engaged next turn, if she can hit him and knock him down.

Warm regards, Rick

Good point. Or she could just force him to retreat if no one else hits her.

[Chris Rice]

I see this as a key feature of the combat system; taking the option to move over half MA to lock up (engage) and opponent is an important tactic. It's also why sometimes you choose to use initiative to go first rather than wait to see what the opponent will do.