12-22-2010, 04:11 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Origins or Design Base
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In a strange twist of events, these "Demons" of Hebrew Lore were actually worshiped by other cultures - generally those that would end up becoming the enemies of God's People. Babylon, Sumeria, Mesopotamia, Assria, etc. This is one of the reasons why the Ethereal Guide can sometimes leave me confused - because the easiest way to get a demon is to find a false God. John Milton exploits this in Paradise Lost, where he lists several ancient Roman Gods as the companions of Lucifer (strangely enough, after invoking the Muses. Weird, right?)
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"A knight's a sword with a horse. The vows, the sacred oil and the lady's favors, they're ribbons tied 'round the sword. Maybe the sword's prettier with the ribbons, but it'll kill you just as dead." |
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12-23-2010, 09:47 AM | #22 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Origins or Design Base
"Ishim" ("manlike beings") probably works as a substitute for "Mercurians."
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12-23-2010, 07:35 PM | #23 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Madison, WI
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Re: Origins or Design Base
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Granted, I like my angels and demons to feel more traditional than the Rules As Written make them: that's why I changed several Archangels and Princes in my campaign. On the other hand...I also love the idea of Ethereals too much to scrap them. (Not just the obviously pagan ones, but also the Ethereals created through popular culture and fiction; the idea that human beliefs can come to life in the "space" between Heaven and Hell gives mortals an underrated edge in the War.) Despite what some TV preachers claim, I have a hard time seeing Lucifer behind Mr. Tumnus, Bilbo Baggins, or Kermit the Frog. Ethereals who don't consider themselves gods, who don't want to be worshiped, and who don't promote any demonic Words surely can't be demons in disguise? If they exist at all, they must be something different from celestials; and I'm glad the game has rules for them.
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Ingeborg S. Nordén Last edited by ISNorden; 12-23-2010 at 10:20 PM. |
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12-23-2010, 08:11 PM | #24 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Origins or Design Base
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12-23-2010, 09:50 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Madison, WI
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Re: Origins or Design Base
I've listed them in a PDF file for new players' convenience; you can download the whole thing here--
http://innomineheaven.50webs.com/cha...iors_guide.pdf Quote:
As far as pop-culture Ethereals appearing in my game, it happens mainly as the occasional bit of comic relief or random weirdness. (A roll of 333 in my game is an Ethereal Intervention...which can mean anything from a pagan Soldier getting a lucky break, to a ghost haunting a crime scene, to an irrelevant memory obsessing some character at odd moments.)
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Ingeborg S. Nordén |
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12-24-2010, 05:44 AM | #26 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Origins or Design Base
I really liked the idea of renaming the Mercurian choir as the "Ishim," as well, but the problem that I had was that it just isn't colloquial. I agree with both of you, [ISNorden and Matthias], in that you couldn't ask for a better description of them.
Alas, I am never satisfied. I want a cool prefix, but it has to make sense -- and alas again, I cannot speak, read or write fluent hebrew. So like.. Meleishim might mean "King-ish Manlike Beings," and Balishim might mean, "Lordly Manlike Beings," but chances are that when you put a prefix (especially a bitten-off prefix) in front of a word that is authentically Judaic, you don't actually get the word you were looking for. A golcommode is not an English word for a golden toilet, no matter how you fluff up the pronunciation or how many apostrophes you stick in between the letters. Okay...I need to start using quotes. Sorry, I'm tired. Just got off work. Quote:
But...I just got the Ethereal Player's Guide (SO awesome that they put it in PDF!!) and now my curiosity is starting to come directly into conflict with my initial distaste for the dreamlands -- I still have no clue how to portray the setting that is the Marches in my games, but there are things that I really like about the EPG. For one, I think that the conflict between "The World is a Symphony" and "The World is a Tapestry" is a very intriguing one. I'm curious to see what would happen if a demon managed to take advantage of the Ethereal "threads" or the worship rites (to draw a parallel: if ISNorden is interested in making "Gray Celestials," suffice it to say that I'm curious to see what happens when you twist the game so that you have "Black Ethereals.") Also, reading this new book, [999 AD - the writing could be a little better, but the ideas are pretty solid, as is the authors knowledge of mythology] has given me some very interesting ideas for the Purity Crusade...which I never really originally liked. What if, for example, the Greek Gods were actually consumed (as in, spiritually cannibalized) by the Roman Gods, and when the Romans began to persecute the Jews, the angels took notice? What if, after the death of Jeshua of Nazareth, Uriel was so moved by the resounding faith of these new "Christians" that he decided to take up arms against the deities that were oppressing them? And what if, after slaughtering and stamping the Roman Gods out of existence (as was mirrored in History when Christianity began to consume Rome), he just didn't stop? In 999 AD (the book), everything from the Aesir to the Fair Folk to the Angels are real. Satan harnesses the collective consciousness and fear of the people who believe that the millennium is The End to "kickstart" the Apocalypse before the appointed hour by casting his own players in some perverted prophetic roles (as far as I can tell, he's using Loki as the Antichrist, and Loki is in turn using Lucifer to kickstart Ragnarok; it's good stuff.) It kind of makes me wonder: how epic would it be if the Hindi Gods, who are still actively being worshiped, struck a deal with the Infernals during the advent of 2012? Quote:
That being said, I'm very curious to figure out how you made it work!
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"A knight's a sword with a horse. The vows, the sacred oil and the lady's favors, they're ribbons tied 'round the sword. Maybe the sword's prettier with the ribbons, but it'll kill you just as dead." |
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12-24-2010, 10:00 AM | #27 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Origins or Design Base
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12-24-2010, 06:20 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Origins or Design Base
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If you were interested in Maimonides' hierarchy, might I suggest you check out the Philosophe Occulte? I don't have the link, but I copy-pasted a passage from it and made a chart using his descriptions. Wikipedia, as always, has different (and probably more accurate) translations of the names of demons provided. One of them, "Gamchicoth," looked like a really good name for the Djinn. It means, "Disturbers of Souls." After looking through several of the descriptions of the other demons (including "The Shells," "The Incendiaries," and "The Two Headed Ones," -- all curiously close to the shedim, calabites and balseraph), I think they fit best. The thing is, it's not euphonic. Gamchicothim? How do I pretty that up? Not that they'd *care.* On the outside.
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"A knight's a sword with a horse. The vows, the sacred oil and the lady's favors, they're ribbons tied 'round the sword. Maybe the sword's prettier with the ribbons, but it'll kill you just as dead." |
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12-24-2010, 06:27 PM | #29 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Origins or Design Base
Yes, that's true.
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(Comedy option: "Balcherubs.") |
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12-24-2010, 07:37 PM | #30 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Madison, WI
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Re: Origins or Design Base
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I'm the one who suggested "Kynoi" as an alternative for "Djinn" when the topic came up earlier this year. It may not be traditional, but it's a good name for predatory beast-demons and it's proper Greek. (Still a Biblical language, plus I seem to recall a passage in Revelation about nonliteral "dogs" being excluded from Heaven. Score!) "Gamichoth" is already a (feminine) plural, judging by my smattering of Hebrew. The correct singular I can't find without a dictionary, but the Anglicized "gamespeak singular" (Gamichite) feels too awkward to catch on with IN players. If the Djinn Band needs renaming for clarity's sake...the new name should be easy to spell and pronounce, and unlikely to be confused with some Ethereal species.
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Ingeborg S. Nordén |
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