Weird Science Personal Shields; ideas and consequences

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

As for you saying that at 20lbs per 10-pointer (i.e. 50DR) every military would have it in general usage:
Fred Brackin said it's too heavy, but you say it's quite good. Why, and why do you think Fred Brackin is wrong?

I was responding to a 50 pt fully ablative shield that turned off completely after 50 pts and left the user halfway to unconsciousness.

The modern armor I was comparing it to was the advanced body armor at 35/5 for 17 lbs. That would completely stop 3 rounds semi-auto from an AK.

Your shield would stop (17.5+17.5 +15), let 2,5 pts through and do that 5 pts of toxic. I'd be at 1/2 speed because of lost HP and very close to unconsciousness.

That's what I was calling conventional firearms threats at short-range. Your shield would offer better head/face protection but few npcs of average Skill levels will aim for those areas.

A single large explosion like Ze's IED is one of the few threats I would consider it a good choice for. With ablative armor you want it to stop single big attacks. It's much less good at many small attacks.

If we're talking UT things are clearer. 50pts doesn't go as far and while this is lighter than a Combat Hardsuit and slightly better against that one big attack an actual battlesuit (TL9 Powered combat armor) gives DR 50 (no ablative at all) even on the limbs and faceplate with no toxic and pretty much no encumbrance.

I also think you're underselling that toxic HP damage. Somebody who's taken 1/2 his HP in damage like that probably needs to consider retreat or evacuation rather than trying to see the fight through if he has the option.

That's in a military context of course. This might have a niche for a bomb squad or something like that.

Setting the weight at BL is also a little high for normal carry in a non-military situations. The TL12 Conformal Force Fields in UT are only 2.5 lbs for (semi-ablative)DR 60. 20 lbs (or whatever your BL is) is about half of a light backpack (or about my normal load of gaming books and stuff).

Also and this may just be my personal gaming preferences as a player, I wouldn't like keeping the varied effects that have been discussed straight and wouldn't do it for my character unless there was more and better (unmixed) benefits. I'd see 50pts mostly Ablative (and with side-effect damage) at an automatic cost of -1 to Move and Dodge and just prefer to simplify my life.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The 'psyche matters' is one of the features I was aiming for. I mean hey, it is a weird-science thingy, so it should be okay.

Your choice, doesn't make much sense in any type of real world situation, but whatever floats your boat.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

As for you saying that at 20lbs per 10-pointer (i.e. 50DR) every military would have it in general usage:
Fred Brackin said it's too heavy, but you say it's quite good. Why, and why do you think Fred Brackin is wrong?

It weighs less than what we're currently wearing at TL8, includes not just torso and head, but full body protection, what's not to like?


EDIT: To be clearer, I like it because I'm looking at it from the POV of real world options with this one weird-science tech gadget being available, while Fred seems to dislike it from the POV of a gamer with the UT book open in front of him.

[Kalzazz]

I always considered one of the major advantages of strong characters being the ability to wear armor without being encumbered

By this armor model, will always be encumbered even if you have 50 ST

[DemiBenson]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!

Here's a weird-science idea I had while considering a total remake of the Æthereal Sun setting. The idea is pretty raw (as in, uncooked, not the abbreviation), and has a bunch of options on which I haven't decided. I'm curious as to the effects and consequences of having such personal shields (with the various options/switches). So, here goes:

Orgone shields are powerful personal protective force field generators which tap a person's bio-energy in order to protect from external threats. They have the following features:

• Shields need to be properly calibrated and attuned to a person's bio-aura. Thus, it is often not possible to pick up another person's shield and use it immediately, if at all.
• A shield's power level can be roughly measured as the average of ST and HP (or the lower of two, if you prefer to be gritty) of the person to whom it is attuned.

• Make it Min(ST, HP). For most people, it won't matter, but you want to avoid the case of the ex-sumo wrestler who gets a massively powerful shield compared to his buddies.
  
  

  Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

  To be able to fully use the life-force of a person, a shield must weight no less than the BL of the ST to which it is to be attuned. This is the weight of a Light shield. It is also possible to construct Medium shields (×2 weight, ×2 protection) and Heavy ones (×3). It is not possible to tap more than triple the minimum amount of power, no matter how large/heavy the shield.

  Why not let them get huge shields? Make cost the square of the weight multiplier - you get a shield that can stop a bomb, but it's too expensive to give to every trooper.
  
  

  Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

  A Light shield provides 5×(ST+HP)/2, or 5×min(ST,HP) points of protection, which, under normal ranged-combat conditions (see below), can be considered fully Ablative. Naturally, a Medium or Heavy shield will have ×2 or ×3 the amount of DR.

  For every ST or HP (or average) points of DR ablated, the shield-user loses 1 HP to general life-drain. If it matters, consider it Cosmic (irresistible) Tox damage.

  The rate of a shield's recharge I have not decided, but it is certainly not possible to take off one shield and take on a new one while under fire.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Now, I want to add some more esoteric options. Some of them more likely, some of them less. These are:

Mêlée:

• Unpowered mêlée attacks done by sapient characters ignore this DR fully or partially, thanks to the special focus of the sword-wielder's mind on the attack. Boomsticks and the like are considered powered for this purpose.
  OR
• Mêlée attacks get an armor divisor, but only specially-crafted blades get to totally ignore the DR.

Ranged attacks:

• DR is considered Non-Ablative against non-Aimed shots, as well as all shots except the first in autofire.
  AND/OR
• DR is considered Hardened against non-Aimed shots, as well as all shots except the first in autofire.
  THEN ALSO
• DR is considered Non-Ablative (but not Hardened) beyond a certain range, which may or may not depend on the Attributes of the shooter and the shield-user. I'm thinking of setting the range around 50-250 yards, but analysis of the consequences of other ranges is appreciated too.

So, these are my ideas. How do they look, and what would be the consequences of having such shields at TLs 7-9?

All your options are too complicated. Make it simple:

• Unarmed attacks ignore the shield entirely.
• Melee weapons treat the shield as ablative. Only unpowered melee weapons - vibroblades and bang-sticks have a non-bio-energy power source (electricity or gunpowder, respectively).
• Ranged weapons treat the shield as DR (Force-Field).
• Explosions treat the shield the same as ranged weapons, but also double (or triple, or whatever) the shield's DR.

Only the bio-energy of a living being can negate the shield's defenses, which is why unarmed attacks ignore the shield. A melee weapon is powered by a living being, so it (just barely) has better performance than ranged weapons.

Now, one big change that I'd make is don't personalize the shields - don't build shields for specific people. The way your rules are setup, someone would have to guess that the shield unit needs to be some multiple of the combination of the user's strength and mass in order to be effective. That works out to the characters in the setting having meta-game knowledge - probably not what you were aiming for.
Instead, say that the shields are built in a couple of different sizes and strengths, and people should take the biggest one that feels comfortable because the ratio of shield size to user's bio-mass is related to shield efficiency.

Say that the shield units are made in specific sizes (like 10 lbs, 15 lbs, 20 lbs) and people grab the biggest one they can stand. Then you, the GM, calculate how much defense it gives them based on their ST/HP.

[copeab]

I have a vaguely similar device in my WWII campaign, although the PCs may have the only working model. It consists of a thick leather belt, a motorcycle battery and a "black box" with a switch and indicator lights.

Quite simply, it uses the wearer's Kirlian energy to create an ablative force field; for every eight points of damage it stops, the user loses one point of fatigue. The shield only recharges when the wearer regains fatigue. It does not have to be calibrated for it's wearer. It does not stop very slow attacks.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

It weighs less than what we're currently wearing at TL8, includes not just torso and head, but full body protection, what's not to like?


EDIT: To be clearer, I like it because I'm looking at it from the POV of real world options with this one weird-science tech gadget being available, while Fred seems to dislike it from the POV of a gamer with the UT book open in front of him.

I'm not looking at it "only" from the viewpoint of a real world grunt who's currently deployed. I'm trying to look at it from the viewpoints of a variety of characters in a variety of situations. There are a lot of situations where this isn't much of a bargain.

One of those not a bargain things is that you'll probably need to keep all your current gear and stack this on top. A unit for Ze would probably weigh more than 20 lbs too. I'd think at least 29.

But yeah, I am looking at it from the viewpoint of how things work in Gurps. This is a gaming board and this thing is a proposed addition to that game.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by ectropy

M
All your options are too complicated. Make it simple:

• Unarmed attacks ignore the shield entirely.
• Melee weapons treat the shield as ablative. Only unpowered melee weapons - vibroblades and bang-sticks have a non-bio-energy power source (electricity or gunpowder, respectively).
• Ranged weapons treat the shield as DR (Force-Field).
• Explosions treat the shield the same as ranged weapons, but also double (or triple, or whatever) the shield's DR.

Agreed about the complexity and this thing would be a no-brainer for practically anybody, anywhere.

[martinl]

If these things are cheap enough to equip infantry with, they will significantly change the power balance of battle. A lot of the big killers in TL4+ warfare are support weapons. Shrapnel, arty, bombs, suppressive fire, etc. These things make indirect killing harder.

Support weapons will become big enough to reliably punch through whatever shield is common for infantry. So HMGs but not light MGs, less but bigger arty, grenades not very attractive, ect.

Individual marksmanship will matter much more. Snipers will use big guns like the early WWII AT rifles.

Depending on cost and effectiveness, these may replace seat belts and similar civilian safety devices.

Sporting applications may develop. ("Paintball" with .22s?)

People involved in more personalized violence won't love these very much, as they won't get nearly as much out of them.

[vierasmarius]

Why make it Ablative versus muscle-powered melee weapons? If unarmed attacks ignore DR (don't interact with the shield), powered weapons take full DR (interact normally) and explosive are resisted with a multiple of DR (interact strongly) then it would make sense to resist muscle-powered weapons with 1/2 DR (interact weakly). I'd then make the shield semi-ablative versus all the attacks - sure it'll stop a grenade blast, but it'll burn it out much faster than getting stabbed or shot.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Why make it Ablative versus muscle-powered melee weapons? If unarmed attacks ignore DR (don't interact with the shield), powered weapons take full DR (interact normally) and explosive are resisted with a multiple of DR (interact strongly) then it would make sense to resist muscle-powered weapons with 1/2 DR (interact weakly). I'd then make the shield semi-ablative versus all the attacks - sure it'll stop a grenade blast, but it'll burn it out much faster than getting stabbed or shot.

I'm specifically avoiding the ablation against many attacks specifically to prevent swarms of small attacks from being overly effective against this protection.

Maybe indeed get rid of too many intermediate interactions, leaving only three:

• Mostly impersonal attacks - unaimed ranged attacks, ranged attacks beyond the range at which the person can hit the target without visual aids (Range Penalty>Vision+Acc), attacks by nonsapient entities, area effects etc. - non-ablative, cosmically hardened.
• Moderately personal attacks - aimed attacks, armed mêlée attacks which do not rely on an indirect method to do the main damage (i.e. no boomsticks, no poisons etc.) - normally ablative.
• Highly personal attacks - unarmed mêlée, armed mêlée using very special weapons - ignores DR.