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Old 05-04-2016, 11:11 PM   #1
Raekai
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Default Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

It's short.

Let's say I'm pretty weak overall. I have ST 8. But I have Lifting ST +5. ST 8 wouldn't be enough for a broadsword, but ST 8+5 would! So, can I lift and wield a broadsword as if I had ST 8+5 while only doing ST 8 damage?

I think someone once said in a magical faraway land that Striking ST was the proper way to do this (so I would just do Arm ST for my purposes), but that would mean that I would be striking with ST 8+5.

Birdpeople wing-arms are strong because they have to generate enough lift to get a 5' person off of the ground. But I would figure that flying strength doesn't convert into strength when stabbing people. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Thanks!
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

The answer is, as far as I can tell, yes.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

Striking ST determines whether you qualify for the minimum ST score the weapon requires to wield.

However, there are some rules for parrying weapons that come into play if your Striking ST is big enough to let you use huge weapons that won't break against weapons of opponents which weigh more than your own BL; they just knock your weapon aside as you lack the follow-through to back up a parry with that oversized weapon you're swinging around.

Oh, and an optional rule lots of people love is to apply Lifting ST instead of Striking ST for the minimum strength requirement of bows and crossbows.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

OP, I asked this exact question a while back and was advised that Striking ST is canon for purposes of determining min ST to wield a weapon but that using Lifting ST instead would make a good house rule.

edit

OP, this is the original thread, should be useful: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=127534

Last edited by mr beer; 05-04-2016 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

Answer from the uFAQ:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
Okay, I've had a chance to go over this with Kromm in detail. Here's the ruling. I'll even cast Summon Molokh for it:

When weapons have a minimum ST requirement, can I add Arm ST, Lifting ST, and/or Striking ST to my ST for this purpose?

Arm ST always helps if it applies to all arms necessary to use the weapon. It's rather useful! If you have a two-handed weapon, however, and only one arm has the Arm ST, it doesn't help at all; always use the "weakest link."

Lifting ST helps with non-muscle-powered weapons, like firearms. The ST requirement for these weapons is primarily due to their mass, and Lifting ST helps with that. Their standard operation requires you to hold them steady, not to swing or a stab with them dynamically. (With some weapons, like heavy-recoil slugthrowers, Striking ST could be argued to help, but this kickback is still less of an issue than the weapon's mass -- thus, always use Lifting ST.)

Striking ST helps with muscle-powered weapons, from swords to thrown daggers to bows. The ST requirement for these weapons is primarily due to the need to use them dynamically -- you have to be able to swing, thrust, or pull with great force, which is what Striking ST is all about. (To some degree, Lifting ST could be argued to help, as it allows you to more easily support the weapon, but that's less of an issue than the need to attack with the weapon -- thus, always use Striking ST.)

So note that you can combine ST, Arm ST, and one of Lifting ST or Striking ST for the purpose of meeting a weapon's minimum ST requirement -- but you'll never combine Lifting ST and Striking ST.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekai View Post
.

Birdpeople wing-arms are strong because they have to generate enough lift to get a 5' person off of the ground. But I would figure that flying strength doesn't convert into strength when stabbing people. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Thanks!
I would be more inclined to give wing-arms Striking ST anyway. Birds can deliver a hell of a wallop with those things.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
I would be more inclined to give wing-arms Striking ST anyway. Birds can deliver a hell of a wallop with those things.
arguably, a bird 'punches' with its feet and 'kicks' with its wings -- which of those carry it around everywhere and which are used for grabbing things?
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
arguably, a bird 'punches' with its feet and 'kicks' with its wings -- which of those carry it around everywhere and which are used for grabbing things?
Since the OP specified that the bird-people under discussion are using weapons with their wings, that's not terribly relevant. The question under discussion is whether the type of strength needed to flap wings and fly translates to hitting things. I argue that it does.
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Old 05-05-2016, 12:52 PM   #9
Raekai
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

Y'all are as great as ever. Thank you so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Answer from the uFAQ:
I totally missed the uFAQ, but that seems like the most official answer. I'll just go with Arm ST, I think. This will be interesting because birdpeople are rather fragile, but this allows them to still be heavy hitters when they aren't flying. Interesting trade-off and maybe more appealing to players to take as a template.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
arguably, a bird 'punches' with its feet and 'kicks' with its wings -- which of those carry it around everywhere and which are used for grabbing things?
That makes sense, I guess. But these birdpeople are more like the batpeople from Bio-Tech. They have extra fingers which allow them to have "hands" on their wings. They're genetic modifications of humans engineered by a god/highly-advanced-alien.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Does Lifting ST Allow Me to Wield Heavier Weapons While Doing ST Damage?

I would give wings "Arm ST" and label it Wing ST, rather than giving the whole flyer Lifting ST or Striking ST. Flying creatures are different enough in construction to warrant relaxing any limits on max Arm ST humans might have.

Also, if you give them lifting ST with an eye toward helping them fly, you also help them carry or drag stuff while walking, and for most fliers, that is a little absurd.

If these bird-people have usable hands on their wings, I see no reason why they couldnt deliver powerful blows with weapons in those hands. If for some reason you think that is no good, you could break out Arm ST into Lifting Arm ST and Striking Arm ST... but I dont know that it would be worth it.
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