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Old 10-24-2012, 03:55 PM   #21
Der Wanderer
 
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
How much would ít cost to 'hammerspace' that baby?
Actually that might work: Buy Payload 10 (Exposed -50%, TK -10%, Based on TK +100%) for 14CP
As such it would still allow the use of TK but what is stowed in the payload counts towards basic lift of TK...
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #22
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

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At more human poundages, both give lower damage ratings than you'd get from a comparable GURPS thrust damage, but cinematic is closer. At higher poundages, it does spiral off.
I suspect that the reason for that is higher poundages tend to drive thicker arrows, and the GURPS penetration model goes up as sqrt(KE), as it does in TDS, but goes down as some lower power of the diameter of the projectile. My old ballistics article has this as about diameter^0.3 or so, if I remember (cross section to the 0.152?).

In any case, normalizing by the arrow diameter divided by 10mm and that to the 0.3 power might tame the penetration of spears . . . but at some point, "impaling" just doesn't cut it. :-)

Anyway, compare the energy and the mass vs. ballistic projectiles, and see if it's really insane, or just mildly insane. I seem to recall that a ST 35 bow can deliver nearly as much energy as an M16 (5d), though the projectile was a lot larger (should lower damage) but a lot longer and heavier (tends to penetrate better due to momentum/collision effects).
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

I've yet to get The Deadly Spring, so I can't really see if this is feasable; would it be possible to get the create-a-bow stuff into GCA?
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:13 PM   #24
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

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I've yet to get The Deadly Spring, so I can't really see if this is feasable; would it be possible to get the create-a-bow stuff into GCA?
It should be quite possible to code this into any program.

On the other hand, I really wouldn't wish it on even distant acquaintances, much less actual friends. :-)

Someone PM'ed me once to consider making an app instead of a spreadsheet. I'm all for it, though I wouldn't do it myself.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

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Someone PM'ed me once to consider making an app instead of a spreadsheet. I'm all for it, though I wouldn't do it myself.
That was me. Don't have one line of code written. I gave up while trying to lay out the interface. Mind you, once an interface is designed the actual coding seems pretty straightforward. But short of a wall of check boxes, drop menus and text boxes I couldn't see how to do it and improve the functionality of the original spreadsheet other than performance.

My goal was to make it so you could change any element of the design at any point, and there was about 30 or so places where data could be changed or relevant data displayed, so an elegant interface isn't exactly easy when you need to present that much information at once. I can think of a few ways to change that, like multiple windows with different parts of the design system, but memories that's not entirely elegant for all users. (I have two "full HD" monitors, but a single 1365x768 display on a laptop is unfortunately the de facto standard for new systems these days, let's not get into people on older systems.)

Some of my eventual design goals was to make some derived fields lockable and have it recalculate from there. Of course that would lead to impossible or impractical designs but that's kind of the point of something like this.

Plus, frankly, I got bored.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:18 AM   #26
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

I already have a command line program in perl that mass-produces bows from an input file with the parameters, but it's got a bug somewhere that's doing bad math and making bad bows, I'm still tracking that issue down.

It's also the opposite of user friendly :)

General GUI design principles for horrendously complex sets of inputs:

Multiple tabs: one for each related group of concepts
* General parameters such as TL, what kind of bow (hand, foot, cross), cinematic parameters or realistic, bow quality options, poundage, stave length, draw length.
* Design of the bow stave (material(s), stave shape, working percentage, width, thickness)
* design of the riser (hidden/disabled if working percentage is 100%; materials, thickness, flexibility tolerance, etc)
* design of the stock (hidden/disabled if not a crossbow; materials, thickness, length, special cost multiplier, etc.)
* Arrow design sheet
* materials database editor

Presentation of the results in a small box on the side of the tab group (same as the results box in the spreadsheet probably), plus options to export in SJG forum format plus formatted text or plain text :)


Now you've made me think about it.

I'll see if I end up taking a stab at it - I go on vacation this evening for almost a week, but I may just play Skyrim the entire time.


The downside of a program is that it would prevent the use of the Solution Solver in eXcel, which is a REALLY EXCELLENT tool.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:06 AM   #27
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

[QUOTE=DouglasCole;1463921
Anyway, compare the energy and the mass vs. ballistic projectiles, and see if it's really insane, or just mildly insane. I seem to recall that a ST 35 bow can deliver nearly as much energy as an M16 (5d), though the projectile was a lot larger (should lower damage) but a lot longer and heavier (tends to penetrate better due to momentum/collision effects).[/QUOTE]

When I've compared velocity v. mass in bullets v. arrows (in straight Gurps) I've found pretty reasonable comaprisons as long as you keep arrow mass within a the range of aboyt the 15 grains per lb of pull figure I saw online for modern hunting arrows.

By the time you get an arrow that does damage like a 5.56 it should be about 100x as heavy (i.e. near a lb or 7000 grains) . !00x mass largely compensates for only 1/10 as fast even when V is being squared.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:23 AM   #28
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

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By the time you get an arrow that does damage like a 5.56 it should be about 100x as heavy (i.e. near a lb or 7000 grains) . !00x mass largely compensates for only 1/10 as fast even when V is being squared.
I feel better about that much damage from a 2.45 lb arrow then. O.o
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:38 AM   #29
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

Shouldn't it use Cannon skill rather than Bow?
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3

Okay, I got me a Deadly Spring spreadsheet from our GM, it was super-useful. It turns out the bow Bruno made was dead-on, though I opted for something a bit lighter (I can only affect 90 lb. with my Control Metal, so it had to be lighter than that).

Damage 6d+1(2) imp; Acc 3; Range 300/406; Weight 53.1/1.25; RoF 1; Shots 1(3); ST 35†; Bulk -10.

Bow Length 120 in. (100% working); Draw Weight 612 lb.; Draw Length 60 in.; TL4 Steel; Recurved; Rectangular Shape (n=4, thickness 0.64 x 2.5 in.); Deflection 21 in. (18%); String Loops 2.4; Stored Energy 2385 J; Efficiency 62.5%; Delivered Energy 1493 J; Arrow Velocity 80 m/s. Alternatively, half-pound arrows (Damage 5d(2) imp; Acc 4; Range 300/651; Efficiency 40%; Delivered Energy 957 J; Arrow Velocity 100 m/s) could be used for long-range sharpshooting.

Carrying this thing around really isn't that much of an issue - this is purely a big-monster-hunting tool. I don't plan to use it in your typical brawl (wouldn't fit in any human-sized room anyway). When not in use, we'll keep it in our cart.

Since the projectiles are still less than a kilo in weight, I don't think it would use Cannon, but I'll check with my GM first.

Thanks, everyone!
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